1 2 CITY COUNCIL 3 CITY OF NEW YORK 4 -------------------------------x 5 THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES 6 of the 7 COMMITTEE ON WATERFRONTS 8 (Held Jointly With) SUBCOMMITTEE ON LANDMARKS, SITING 9 And MARITIME USES 10 -------------------------------x 11 December 14, 2006 12 Start: 12:15 p.m. Recess: 3:34 p.m. 13 City Hall 14 Council Chambers New York, New York 15 16 B E F O R E: 17 MICHAEL NELSON Chairperson, Waterfronts Committee 18 JESSICA LAPPIN 19 Chairperson, Landmarks, Siting And Maritime Uses 20 21 22 23 24 LEGAL-EASE COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 17 Battery Place - Suite 1308 25 New York, New York 10004 (800) 756-3410 2 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 3 COUNCIL MEMBERS: 4 5 Gale Brewer Alan Gerson 6 Melissa Mark-Viverito Leroy Comrie 7 Annabel Palma Maria Arroyo 8 James Oddo Sara Gonzalez 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED) 3 Kate Ascher 4 Executive Vice President NYC Economic Development Corporation 5 Andrew Gann 6 Transportation Department NYC Economic Development Corporation 7 Congressman Jerrold Nadler 8 8th Congressional District 9 Christopher O. Ward Managing Director 10 General Contractors Association 11 Greg O'Connell Pier 41 Associates 12 Mickey Reed 13 Appearing on behalf of Dorothy Shields President, Tenant Association of Red Hook 14 Ray Hall ASI 15 Dorothy Siegel 16 Working Families Party 17 Edward J. Kelly Executive Director 18 Maritime Association of the Port of NY/NJ 19 Sandy Pope Teamsters Local 805 20 Phaedra Thomas 21 Southwest Brooklyn LDC 22 Tom Fox New York Water Taxi 23 Roberta Weisbrod, Ph.D 24 Partnership for Sustainable Ports 25 4 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED) 3 Matt Yates 4 Director of Commercial Operations ASI-Red Hook Container Terminal 5 Alexander Jordan 6 NYPort Terminal Development Corporation 7 Michael Freedman-Schnapp Senior Policy Associate 8 New York Industrial Retention Network 9 Carolina Salguero PortSide New York 10 Joseph Hughes 11 Erie Basin Marine Associates 12 Norman Brown Legislative State Council of Machinists 13 Stephen Hindy 14 President Brooklyn Brewery 15 Lou Sones 16 Coordinator Red Hook GAGS 17 Charles Burns 18 Tug And Barge Committee 19 Lisa Kersavage Kress/RFR Fellow for Historic Preservation 20 the Municipal Arts Society of New York 21 Bette Stoltz Executive Director 22 South Brooklyn LDC 23 Seth Goodwin 24 25 5 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay, we're going 3 to start it in just a minute, but I wanted to, for 4 the people who don't have seats, to let you know 5 that the sound is going to be piped into the 6 Chambers until 1:00 when another hearing begins in 7 there, so you can sit in there and hear what's 8 happening in here, including if your name is called 9 to testify, if you would be more comfortable doing 10 that. We wanted to make that option available to 11 you, and we'll begin in just a minute in here. 12 Good afternoon. My name is Jessica 13 Lappin. I'm the Chair of the Land Use, Subcommittee 14 on Landmarks, Public Siting and Maritime Uses, and 15 wanted to welcome you here today for this joint 16 hearing with the City Council's Waterfronts 17 Committee, which is Chaired by Council Member Mike 18 Nelson. 19 We're here today to discuss the 20 future of the working waterfront in South Brooklyn, 21 and more specifically to discuss the future of the 22 piers in Sunset Park and Redhook. 23 I want to thank Council Member Nelson 24 for agreeing to hold this joint hearing and for the 25 members of the Committee who have joined us today, 6 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Council Member Miguel Martinez from Manhattan, 3 Council Member David Yassky from Brooklyn, Council 4 Member Annabel Palma from the Bronx, and Council 5 Member Mendez from Manhattan, Council Member Maria 6 del Carmen Arroyo from the Bronx, Council Member 7 Leroy Comrie from Queens, and Council Member Joe 8 Addabbo from Queens. 9 These Red Hook and Sunset Park are in 10 Council Member Gonzalez's district. She is on her 11 way and specifically asked us to begin because she 12 knows there are a lot of people here who are on 13 tight schedules, but she will be joining us shortly 14 and I will recognize her again when she arrives for 15 her advocacy and leadership, but I wanted to note 16 for the record she has been -- really takes her 17 responsibilities seriously and has worked tirelessly 18 for her community, has been on top of the issues 19 involved. Certainly in touch on a constant basis 20 with me, and I assume with Council Member Nelson as 21 well, and I wanted to commend her for her 22 leadership. 23 Times in this City are good, 24 development is happening at a rapid clip, crime is 25 down, tax revenues continue to exceed our 7 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 expectations and we're growing by leaps and bounds. 3 We have 8 million who call New York home, and 4 projections show that we're going to have 225,000 5 more New Yorkers in just four short years. 6 That's great news, more than ever 7 people want to live here, work here and call New 8 York City home, and the Mayor outlined in his speech 9 earlier this week his sustainability speech, what 10 some of those pressures will bring. And because of 11 the anticipated growth that we're experiencing, it 12 does put pressure on those of us in government to 13 plan and respond accordingly. 14 It's important for us in the City 15 Council to make Land Use decisions now that will 16 enable us to grow wisely for the future. There is 17 certainly a lot at stake, and the decisions that we 18 make about the future of the waterfront in Red Hook 19 and Sunset Park are ones that will impact our City, 20 our State, the historic gateway to our country for 21 decades to come. 22 And that really brings us to the goal 23 of the hearing today, to have a frank and open 24 discussion about the future of the South Brooklyn 25 Waterfront, to hear from the stakeholders involved 8 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 about their long-term vision and goals for the area, 3 and to give the Administration an opportunity to set 4 the record straight about its plan to develop this 5 part of the City. 6 About six months ago, this Landmarks 7 Subcommittee approved the lease for the access group 8 and SBMT, and it became clear at that point in time, 9 that development in this area inspires passionate 10 debate, and there are some differences of opinion. 11 It also became apparent that over the last few years 12 the Administration has sent mixed signals about its 13 plans for Pier 7 through 12 and SBMT. 14 So, I said that on the record, that 15 before this Subcommittee could review and approve 16 other maritime leases in South Brooklyn, I thought 17 it was important for us to know exactly what the 18 Administration's vision is for the area. And 19 particularly, if EDC is still following Giuliani's 20 1999 port plan, we're moving in a different 21 direction. 22 It's equally important to hear from 23 residents, business, labor and community laborers 24 about their goals and issues and concerns, and I'm 25 very heartened to see so many people who live and 9 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 work in the community here today to tell us how they 3 feel about this part of the City. 4 The piers in Sunset Park and Red Hook 5 are precious pieces of waterfront real estate and we 6 have to plan very carefully. It would be a mistake, 7 I believe, to develop this area in a piecemeal 8 fashion, and to squander the opportunity to plan for 9 our future by doing it on a lease-by-lease basis. 10 I think it's important to look in a 11 more comprehensive and holistic manner about Red 12 Hook and Sunset Park. 13 Retaining industrial maritime 14 activity is critical to our overall economic health, 15 and there aren't too many places left in this City 16 that can accommodate port-related uses. 17 History has shown that once maritime 18 industry is gone, it's lost forever. So, we need to 19 keep that in mind as we work together to develop a 20 sound strategic plan to secure the future of our 21 working waterfront. 22 We need to create the maximum number 23 of jobs possible, while meeting the community's 24 needs for more parks and open space. 25 We have to connect local residents to 10 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the waterfront, reduce truck traffic and improve 3 security. 4 These are very attainable goals, and 5 I hope that today's moves us one step closer to 6 redeveloping and revitalizing the South Brooklyn 7 waterfront together, and I wanted to turn it over to 8 Chair Nelson. 9 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. By the 10 way, after I believe EDC offers their testimony, I 11 think it's sloppy for us to stay here, so we will be 12 going into the Chambers. I think we will all be a 13 heck of a lot more comfortable. 14 Good evening, and welcome to today's 15 joint hearing between the Committee on Waterfronts 16 and the Subcommittee on Landmarks, Public Siting and 17 Maritime Uses. My name is Mike Nelson, I have the 18 honor to Chair the Committee on Waterfronts. 19 The subject of today's hearing is 20 Oversight of the South Brooklyn Working Waterfront. 21 In September, Council Members Jessica Lappin, Sara 22 Gonzalez and myself were invited by the EDC on a 23 boat tour of New York City's working waterfront. It 24 was a very enlightening tour. I want to thank EDC 25 publicly for the opportunity and say that I hope 11 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 that there will be more such opportunities in the 3 future. 4 The purpose of the tour was to give 5 the City Council the bigger picture of the working 6 waterfront development in the City. 7 So, often the Council sees these 8 projects in isolation, and they come up for approval 9 at that point at an oversight hearing and it's 10 sometimes difficult to see how a particular pier, 11 park or waterfront dependent business fits into the 12 overall economic well-being of the City. So, we went 13 out in the water and we got splashed on and frozen, 14 it was a lot of fun. 15 It's our hope that today the EDC will 16 be able to further expand on the information they 17 presented on the tour, and explain their strategic 18 vision for the entire South Brooklyn Waterfront. 19 I personally hope to hear from EDC, 20 how all the pieces of the puzzle will fit together 21 to create a vibrant working waterfront in Brooklyn, 22 as well as what the future holds for Brooklyn, ten 23 to 20 or perhaps 30 years down the line. 24 This Council has an obligation to do 25 what we think is best for the City of New York, 12 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 based upon the facts we have at our disposal. 3 Thank you. 4 They're going to go first, but they 5 needed to testify before we move into the big room. 6 So, who is here from EDC, please? 7 MS. ASCHER: Kate Ascher. 8 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Kate Ascher, will 9 you please come and identify yourself for the 10 record. Thank you. 11 MS. ASCHER: Okay, I want to introduce 12 my colleagues, Kate Calignon and Andrew Gann, from 13 EDC. 14 Good morning, Chairpersons Lappin, 15 Nelson and members of the Land Use Subcommittee and 16 Waterfront Committees. My name is Kate Ascher, and I 17 am the Executive Vice President for Infrastructure 18 at EDC. Among other areas I oversee at EDC is 19 maritime development for the City of New York. As 20 you know, EDC through its maritime contract with the 21 City of New York oversees development of the City's 22 maritime assets. 23 In this capacity we have been to this 24 Subcommittee on a number of occasions over the past 25 couple of years to receive approval from Maritime 13 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Leases. 3 In 2005 EDC received approval from 4 this Subcommittee for a lease with Lafarge 5 Construction for a cement importation facility at 6 the 25th Street Pier, Sunset Park, Brooklyn. 7 More recently, this past June, the 8 Subcommittee approved the lease with the Axis Group 9 at South Brooklyn Marine Terminal. 10 The most recent action initiated a 11 valuable dialogue between the Administration and the 12 Council regarding the future of maritime activities 13 in Red Hook and Sunset Park. 14 In August, as Councilwoman Lappin 15 mentioned, EDC hosted a waterside tour of New York 16 Harbor for members of this Subcommittee, as well as 17 the Waterfront Committee and the Council's Land Use 18 staff. Today's hearing is another valuable 19 opportunity to continue that important dialogue. 20 Let me start on a personal note. The 21 maritime industry is one of the areas that I like 22 best and feel most strongly about in my portfolio at 23 EDC, and I have a special affinity for the Brooklyn 24 waterfront. 25 Prior to coming to EDC, I worked for 14 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 seven years at the Port Authority in the Port 3 Commerce Department. It is there that I first became 4 involved in issues pertaining to the Brooklyn 5 Waterfront. During my tenure at the port, the port 6 was contracting, and the Port Authority's Brooklyn 7 assets were in a particularly sorry state. One of my 8 assignments back then was to find private sector 9 interest in developing some of the hardest to market 10 properties in the PA portfolio around Erie Basin. It 11 is gratifying today to see that both the Erie Basin 12 Bargeport owned by Hughes Marine, as well as the 13 Beard Street properties, owned by Greg O'Connell, 14 are, as a result of deals done while I was at the 15 Port, both thriving entities in this special corner 16 of Brooklyn. 17 A lot has changed since my time at 18 the Port, but Brooklyn's waterfront has not. It 19 remains a vital place in the City for ships to dock, 20 for cargo and passengers to arrive and depart, for 21 longshore workers to earn a decent living, and for 22 local residents to take in incredible views. I am 23 pleased to outline to you today a vision of a 24 vibrant working waterfront in Brooklyn, one that 25 integrates a diversity of industrial uses with 15 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 community access and environmental sustainability. 3 By way of introduction, I think it's 4 fair to say that EDC is undertaking the most 5 ambitious redevelopment of the Brooklyn waterfront 6 in half a century. 7 Taking advantage of growth in both 8 maritime trade and recreational maritime activity, 9 the City has embarked on a collection of distinct, 10 but related, projects that span nearly four miles of 11 waterfront, reaching from Brooklyn Heights to the 12 northern boundary of Bay Ridge. Collectively, these 13 projects will unlock the enormous potential of 14 underutilized waterfront assets. These projects will 15 support more than 1,700 new and retained jobs and 16 create over 50 acres of waterfront open space access 17 for local communities. 18 Our agenda today is to begin with a 19 brief profile of the port, including a summary of 20 the location of major facilities in the harbor and 21 an overview of the demand for different maritime 22 uses. 23 Next we will discuss how this demand 24 can be captured at the City's maritime terminals in 25 Brooklyn. This will be followed by a summary of the 16 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 economic impact of these uses, including the most 3 important element, jobs. 4 Finally, because the port must 5 continue to evolve to serve ever-changing markets, 6 we will talk about what steps EDC and the City will 7 be taking to meet future demand beyond the current 8 capacity of existing facilities. 9 A little background provides 10 important context for our plan. The Port of New York 11 and New Jersey is an economic powerhouse. It is the 12 third largest container port in the United States, 13 and the largest on the East Coast. It's the largest 14 port of entry for finished automobiles, and the 15 seventh largest cruise port. 16 Almost 3,000 acres are dedicated to 17 cargo handling within the Port, mainly in two 18 distinct areas, Upper New York Bay, encompassing 19 Brooklyn and Port Jersey, and Newark Bay 20 encompassing Howland Hook and Port Elizabeth/Newark. 21 The Port supplies an immediate 22 population of 20 million consumers in the 23 metropolitan region. It directly and indirectly 24 supports over 230,000 jobs, including 3,500 25 longshore employees, who are directly involved in 17 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the loading and unloading of ships. Over 5,000 3 vessels of all types call in the Port each year. 4 Since the year 2000, increased global 5 trade and a strong local economy has resulted in an 6 impressive growth in cargo, entering and leaving 7 this Port. Container volumes have increased by more 8 than 50 percent. Breakbulk cargos, such as 9 aggregates, cement and forest products, have 10 experienced a 25 percent increase overall. 11 Automobiles are another growth 12 industry. Between 2004 and 2005, the volume of 13 automobiles handled at the Port facilities in New 14 Jersey increased from 600,000 units to over 700,000, 15 an increase of 16 percent in one year alone. Most 16 of these cars are destined for this region, as we 17 are the largest consumer market in the United 18 States. 19 As many of you know, the cruise 20 industry has also grown dramatically. In five years 21 the City's cruise market has expanded from a little 22 over 600,000 passengers annually to almost one 23 million. According to the International Council of 24 Cruise Lines, New York accounted for six and one- 25 half percent of the industries direct expenditures, 18 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 with one billion dollars in direct spending. These 3 expenditures generated an estimated 20,000 jobs, 4 paying about $992 million in income. 5 Other industries using the waterways 6 have also grown. We've seen the resurgence of ferry 7 operations from a single service, the Staten Island 8 Ferry in the 1980s, to five additional private 9 operations, which currently serve about 38,000 10 passengers each day. With respect to waste export, 11 the Administration and the City Council have agreed 12 that the City's Solid Waste Management Plan should 13 maximize waterborne transport to move solid waste 14 and recyclables instead of the unsustainable truck 15 methods used for both today. 16 Let's talk for a moment a little bit 17 about the geography of the Port. Brooklyn, and in 18 particular Red Hook and Sunset Park have 19 historically played roles in the Port of New York 20 and New Jersey, thanks to their proximity to the 21 open ocean, to their central location and to their 22 naturally deep water. Today, Brooklyn is part of a 23 much larger port complex that is dominated by the 24 large commercial terminals centered in Newark Bay. 25 Combined Port Elizabeth, Port Newark and their 19 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 sister facility Howland Hook in Staten Island 3 encompass 2,000 acres and 20 ship berths. 4 New Jersey's highway and rail 5 infrastructure are second to none in the nation 6 giving it a strong position to compete for cargos 7 moving inland with large container ports, such as 8 Hampton Roads in Virginia, Halifax in Nova Scotia 9 and Baltimore. 10 Brooklyn cannot hope to compete in 11 size with its larger sister facilities in New Jersey 12 and Staten Island. As a whole, what we speak of as 13 the Brooklyn Port encompasses about 200 acres and 14 four ship berths currently. It's largest individual 15 terminal, the container facility in Red Hook, is 16 just too small, at slightly over 40 acres, to 17 compete effectively against far larger terminals on 18 the West Side of the harbor. Compare it to Maher 19 Terminals in Port Elizabeth, New Jersey for example, 20 which is 475 acres and nine ship berths is the 21 largest privately managed container port in the 22 United States. Unlike Brooklyn, Maher and its 23 competitors in New Jersey have on-dock rail 24 facilities, where containers are loaded onto rail 25 cars for trips inland to points like Chicago, St. 20 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Louis and Montreal. Howland Hook in Staten Island 3 will likewise have this all important rail-transfer 4 capability with the opening of the Staten Island 5 Railroad next month. 6 But just because Brooklyn does not 7 have the upland area to serve large volumes of 8 containers, or the highway or rail infrastructure to 9 bring them to inland markets, does not mean there is 10 no place for it in maritime trade, far from it. 11 Containers are only one among many important 12 maritime cargos moving through this region, and a 13 number of these cargos can be more efficiently 14 accommodated at a Brooklyn location than they can at 15 a large containerport. 16 Furthermore, many of the breakbulk 17 and non-container type activities are far more 18 labor-intensive than the handling of containers, 19 offering the prospect of greater job generation. 20 Going forward, Brooklyn can and 21 should perform a multi-purpose role that is similar 22 to many smaller ports around the U.S. and around the 23 world. Many smaller ports have successfully adapted 24 to constrained locations, limited highway capacity 25 and navigation constraints. 21 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 The Port of Galvaston, for example, 3 lives in the shadow of the much larger Port of 4 Houston. To adapt, Galvaston embarked on an 5 aggressive strategy to attract a diverse array of 6 maritime markets, including cruise, containers, 7 breakbulk, autos, and boat materials. This mix has 8 allowed Galvaston to thrive. Similar case studies 9 are occurring in Montreal, in Baltimore and in 10 Amsterdam, where innovative thinking has transformed 11 ports that had once been thought obsolete into 12 thriving maritime centers. 13 Similar to these other ports our 14 strategy is to seek a diverse array of maritime uses 15 in Brooklyn that are located along the waterfront, 16 in the places that make the most sense for them to 17 thrive, and which makes the most sense for the 18 communities around them. 19 Our vision of the Port of Brooklyn is 20 a place where maritime cargo and passengers mix 21 seemlessly with maritime support industries, civic 22 uses, and community amenities, And as part of this 23 mixed-use plan, we are seeking to integrate and 24 expand public access to the waterfront for Brooklyn 25 communities that have for over a century been 22 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 blocked off from the beauty of New York Harbor. 3 Let's take you through the plan 4 use-by-use beginning with the cargo uses. In Red 5 Hook, EDC's plans for development of piers 7 to 12 6 envision the creation of a maritime industrial area, 7 encompassing Pier 7 to 9-B. To support this 8 maritime industrial center stevedoring operations 9 would be maintained at Pier 9-A, where there are 10 currently two container cranes that can handle both 11 containers and certain breakbulk cargos. 12 At Pier 7, the northern most pier, 13 Phoenix Beverages will be located. Phoenix is a 14 major beer importer that distributes mainly within 15 the City and seeks barge service to reduce its costs 16 and trucking volumes by handling trans Hudson 17 container moves by water, rather than by road. 18 Phoenix is the epitome of a 19 water-dependent job intensive use. The company has 20 committed to relocating its entire workforce of 21 approximately 400 employees, all of them unionized 22 with benefits, from Long Island City to Pier 7. 23 Once at Pier 7, the ability to handle overweight 24 containers in a consolidated operation will enable 25 Phoenix to hire an additional 100 employees. 23 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Relocating Phoenix will enable its 3 partner, Brooklyn Brewery, to similarly relocate its 4 brewery distribution and beer garden operations from 5 Williamsburg, Brooklyn and Utica, New York to the 6 north side of Pier 7, creating an attractive buffer 7 between Brooklyn Bridge Park to the north, and the 8 Piers 7 to 9-B industrial complex to the south. 9 Brooklyn Brewery will retain and create 90 jobs. 10 These are both great opportunities for the City, as 11 they marry a job-intensive industry with direct 12 maritime service. Assuming the combined project on 13 this one pier goes ahead, we will overnight have 14 tripled the job count on the Red Hook Piers. 15 Similar distribution and warehouse 16 uses that either depend on container or breakbulk 17 service, are also envisioned on Pier 8, adjacent. 18 We have already spoken with a number of firms 19 interested in locating there. While the specific 20 tenant on Pier 8 will be determined through a 21 competitive bid process, we expect and hope that at 22 least 100 jobs would be supported there, going 23 forward. 24 Beyond Pier 9-A, as we move to the 25 south, which will continue to support container 24 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 cranes to be used by the tenants on adjacent piers, 3 lies Pier 9-B. The Governor's Island Preservation 4 and Education Corporation, or GIPEC, has requested 5 that Pier 9-B be set aside for its provisioning and 6 construction needs, as the development of the Island 7 moves forward. 8 Let's move down the shoreline a bit 9 to Sunset Park. The epicenter of maritime cargo 10 activity for Brooklyn will really be the newly 11 christened Sunset Park Marine Terminal, formerly 12 known as the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal. The 13 Sunset Park facility has rail access, is on a 40 14 foot deep federal channel and is located in an 15 industrial area that will remain industrial for the 16 long-term. 17 Previous studies conducted by EDC and 18 others have concluded that the future of cargo, 19 including containers in Brooklyn, lies in Sunset 20 Park. 21 The revitalized Sunset Park Marine 22 Terminal is being designed to handle a diverse mix 23 of cargos, including containers, breakbulk and 24 autos. Sunset Park Marine Terminal will have the 25 capacity to handle approximately 200 vessels 25 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 carrying up to 50,000 20-foot containers, 3 approximately 70,000 automobiles, as well as up to 4 1.5 million tons of general cargo. 5 As you know, the terminal will be 6 operated by the Axis Group, under a lease that was 7 approved this year by the City Council. 8 A potential niche market that the new 9 terminal would enjoy is what are often referred to 10 as "combi-vessels" combination vessels that carry 11 containers stowed on deck, as well as breakbulk 12 commodities or vehicles under deck. 13 These ships are less welcome in 14 container ports because they require complex 15 stevedoring. Brooklyn already specializes in 16 handling these types of vessels and has the 17 longshore expertise to do it well. 18 Consistent with the Axis lease, 19 automobiles will be a featured commodity handled at 20 the Sunset Park Marine Terminal. Autos are a big 21 business for the port, however demand for container 22 expansion space in New Jersey is forcing the 23 industry to find new locations. Sunset Park is an 24 excellent location because of its proximity to a 25 strong market for imported cars, concentrated east 26 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 of the Hudson River in New York City, Long Island, 3 Westchester and southwestern Connecticut. We like 4 this use from an economic development perspective 5 too, as automobile processing results in a higher 6 density of jobs on terminal, than does a container 7 operation. 8 As you may remember, Axis is 9 committed to hiring 120 full-time unionized 10 auto-processing workers and has pledged to work 11 directly with Sunset Park community organizations to 12 recruit these new workers. 13 Importantly, the Sunset Park Marine 14 Terminal will have rail access. EDC will be 15 releasing bids to construct the rail access into the 16 terminal next January. The project, funded through 17 the efforts of Congressman Nadler, will extend a 18 modern rail-line directly into the terminal, linking 19 it with the national rail freight network via the 20 65th Street rail yard. This will enable the facility 21 to attract a more diverse range of import and export 22 goods. 23 Another important cargo activity is 24 the handling of cement. This has been an unsung 25 success story in the port. This year LaFarge Cement 27 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 opened a distribution facility at the 25th Street 3 Pier to handle bargeloads of cement powder from its 4 plant in Ravena, New York, near Albany. 5 In supplying the local construction 6 industry, the plant reduces the trucking of powder 7 on local highways and is completely privately 8 financed. As an interesting side story, the 9 previous tenant at 25th Street, New York Sand and 10 Stone, a Brooklyn company for many years and a 11 runner-up in the RFP competition, is now a 12 sub-tenant on LaFarge's pier and business is 13 thriving. 14 We hope to repeat the success story 15 at Bush Terminal, Pier 6, where C.P. Cemento, a 16 Brazilian company, plans to completely renovate a 17 pier that has been derelict since the '70s and 18 create a deep-sea cement import facility. We expect 19 that that lease will be brought to the Council in 20 this Committee in Spring of '07. Again, this is 21 another quiet success story unfolding on the 22 Brooklyn waterfront. 23 Let's turn for a minute to the cruise 24 industry. In 2004 we commissioned a master plan to 25 identify a strategy for the cruise industry in New 28 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 York. The City's cruise facilities on the west side 3 of Manhattan, at Piers 88, 90 and 92, built in the 4 1930s and last renovated in the 70s, were in dire 5 condition and bursting at the seams on cruise days. 6 Designed for smaller ships these old finger piers 7 were simply unable to handle the flow of a million 8 passengers annually, at the original five berths. 9 Our modernization plan involved 10 investing hundreds of millions of dollars to convert 11 these five old berths to three modern ones able to 12 handle today's giant cruise ships. But to replace 13 the two berths we lost in Manhattan we searched for 14 new capacity throughout the harbor and we found it 15 on the Brooklyn waterfront. 16 While we had initially explored the 17 uses of Pier 7 and 8 for cruise, until we found out 18 that ships couldn't safely dock there, we ultimately 19 settled on Pier 12, just south of Atlantic Basin for 20 our first cruise terminal. Not only could ships 21 safely maneuver in and out of the berth there, but 22 Pier 12 was largely unused by the Port Authority. 23 It had ample upland area for parking, and available 24 space for an approach road that would minimize 25 traffic impacts on local streets. Equally 29 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 importantly it was located in the heart of a 3 community that truly needed the jobs that the cruise 4 industry would bring. 5 In April of this year the Brooklyn 6 Cruise Terminal opened at Pier 12. On cruise days 7 over 250 people are employed at the terminal, 8 including 89 members of Local 1814 of the ILA. By 9 our count over 60 percent of the cruise terminal 10 staff are Brooklyn residents and 30 percent reside 11 in either Red Hook or Sunset Park. 12 As you can see in our first season 13 alone, we handled nearly 200,000 passengers in 41 14 ship calls. Next year we will have a ship call 15 almost every week. We are working closely with the 16 Borough President and local community to increase 17 the economic impact of that facility. EDC will 18 release the Request for Qualifications to food and 19 beverage companies in Brooklyn and around the City 20 in an effort to identify additional local suppliers 21 to the cruise ships. 22 But Pier 12 is alone not enough to 23 meet the growing demands for cruising out of New 24 York City. We have begun design on a second cruise 25 terminal at Pier 10, on the other side of the 30 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Atlantic Basin, and will activate it once 3 construction is complete and container activities 4 have been initiated at the Sunset Park Marine 5 Terminal. 6 This will provide needed capacity 7 into the foreseeable future and create a cruise 8 center around Atlantic Basin. 9 Another area of the maritime industry 10 that EDC is focusing on is the Maritime Support 11 Industry. This includes the tug boats, barges, 12 ferries and other watercraft that support the big 13 ships that move oil, passengers, cargo and sludge. 14 Last fall EDC retained SUNY Maritime College to 15 conduct an in-depth analysis of the industry, 16 something that hadn't been done in 15 years. Initial 17 study findings indicate that the Port is becoming a 18 hub for these services and the demand for space by 19 maritime support companies is at a premium. 20 To address this growing need, EDC 21 issued a request for expressions of interest for the 22 Atlantic Basin, which is located between Piers 10 23 and 12 in Red Hook. 24 Because of its sheltered location, 25 Atlantic Basin is an excellent spot for marine 31 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 services, including vessel and ferry repair, 3 transient docking and storage. We expect to release 4 in January an RFP, both for marine repair work and a 5 supporting marina in the basin, which will 6 ultimately occupy both the basin itself and part of 7 the uplands of Piers 10 and 11. 8 Finally, there are additional 9 maritime uses we are involved in supporting in 10 Brooklyn, as well. One of the cornerstones of the 11 City's Solid Waste Management Plan is the 20- year 12 contract of the Sims Hugo Neu Corporation for 13 processing all of our metal, glass and plastic 14 recyclables. 15 Sims Hugo Neu plans to build a 16 10-acre facility at the 29th Street Pier within the 17 Sunset Park Marine Terminal and pictured here. One 18 of the goals of the Solid Waste Management Plan was 19 to move materials in the most environmentally 20 responsible way, maximizing the use of barge and 21 rail and minimizing the use of trucks wherever 22 possible. 23 An estimated 85 percent of the 24 material that will be processed at Hugo Neu's main 25 facility at the Sunset Park Marine Terminal will 32 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 arrive by barge and an estimated 75 percent will 3 leave that way. Only 25 sanitation trucks from 4 Southern Brooklyn Districts will drive directly to 5 the new processing facility, which equates to a 6 saving of 55,000 vehicle miles traveled each year, 7 as compared to the situation today. 8 Like the other facilities we have 9 talked about, the recycling processing facility will 10 create new jobs on the Brooklyn waterfront, over 90 11 of them. Hugo Neu is firmly committed to hiring 12 locally, something that Councilwoman Gonzalez has 13 made clear as a priority in her district. 14 As I said earlier, the most important 15 element of EDC's Brooklyn waterfront vision is job 16 creation. Today the Port of Brooklyn supports 17 approximately 500 full- and part-time jobs, mostly 18 at the Red Hook container port and at the new cruise 19 terminal at Pier 12. Our goal is to both retain 20 these longshore jobs in Brooklyn and grow additional 21 jobs through the introduction of new 22 maritime-dependent job-intensive uses. Let me 23 repeat this. Under our plan, no existing longshore 24 jobs will be lost; rather expanded job opportunities 25 will be created, both for the ILA and for other 33 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 unions. 3 In total we expect to create about 4 1,200 new jobs, an increase from 485 to 1,250, the 5 number of jobs in Red Hook, and from 30 to 450 jobs 6 in Sunset Park. The leading job-generating uses are 7 Phoenix Beverages and Brooklyn Brewery, at almost 8 600 jobs; Axis in the Sunset Marine Terminal, at 9 almost 300 jobs; and the cruise terminals, on Piers 10 10 and 12, which will support 100 full-time 11 equivalent jobs. 12 Let me move briefly from jobs to 13 waterfront access. As I said previously, opening up 14 the waterfront to the public in places that do not 15 conflict with maritime industrial use, is an 16 important component of our Brooklyn waterfront 17 vision. The City is concentrating heavily on the 18 concept of a "Harbor District" to link recreational 19 spaces in the harbor into a coherent whole. 20 I would like to briefly point out key 21 sites that are in the planning and implementation 22 stages, including Brooklyn Bridge Park, which abuts 23 the Maritime Industrial Complex on Pier 7 to 9-B; 24 Governors Island, which will have a direct 25 connection to Pier 9-B; Atlantic Basin, which we 34 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 foresee as being opened up to public access and 3 integrated into the Brooklyn Waterfront greenway and 4 Bush Terminal Park, which is in the planning stages, 5 but funded for implementation. 6 These are important resources that we 7 hope will allow Brooklyn residents and residents 8 from all over the City to experience the working 9 waterfront up close. 10 Finally, because the port will 11 continue to grow and involve, we need to think about 12 the future. New capacity will be needed for each of 13 the maritime uses mentioned today. To address these 14 needs, EDC will be commencing planning efforts on 15 several fronts. 16 At Sunset Park Marine Terminal, we 17 will conduct a feasibility study to assess adding a 18 second berth, which will help create additional 19 capacity to handle more ships, and therefore create 20 more mobs. 21 At Red Hook our forecast indicates 22 that a third cruise berth will be necessary and we 23 are investigating alternative locations for that 24 expansion. 25 And finally at the 65th Street rail 35 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 yard we are commissioning a feasibility study to 3 rebuild the platform to handle barged-in commodities 4 there. 5 Where does this leave us? The 6 Brooklyn waterfront is on the verge of a new era as 7 part of the Port of New York and New Jersey. By 8 diversifying the types of maritime uses, we can 9 fully realize the benefits of being a port City. 10 Delivering on EDC's vision, will increase the 11 competitiveness of the port as a whole and provide 12 support for the City's economic base, creating new 13 job opportunities at all skill levels. It will also 14 allow greater public use of public land by creating 15 waterfront access in both Red Hook and the Sunset 16 Park community. 17 Thank you for your time today and I 18 am happy to answer any questions. 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: I would like to 20 recognize members who have joined us since 21 beginning. Council Member John Liu of Queens, 22 Council Member David Yassky of Brooklyn, Council 23 Member Annabel Palma from the Bronx, Council Member 24 Sara Gonzalez from Brooklyn, Council Member Melissa 25 Mark-Viverito -- oh I'm sorry, Jimmy Oddo, there you 36 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 are hiding back there, from the Bronx and Melissa 3 Mark-Viverito from Manhattan. Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you very 5 much for your testimony. I wanted to ask you a few 6 questions before we open it up to our colleagues and 7 just repeat, since Council Member Gonzalez is here, 8 I mentioned earlier that you have really been a very 9 strong and forceful advocate for your community, a 10 real leader who is on top of the issues and working 11 incredibly hard. Your leadership, I really wanted 12 to note that on the record. 13 I wanted to, I don't think anyone 14 envisions us competing with New Jersey, but you 15 state in your testimony "demand for container 16 expansion in New Jersey is forcing industry to find 17 new locations." So, I guess I wanted to start with 18 an overall question, because I was not clear from 19 your testimony, because you talked about uses that 20 are not container-related. You talked about cargo 21 and other things. So, the 1999 plan that we talked 22 about during the Axis Hearings and I think Andrew 23 mentioned that the City at that point was adhering 24 to or following, does talk about more 25 container-related uses, and what you are talking 37 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 about today is not. So, I just wanted to ask 3 overall, is the City still following the 1999 Port 4 Plan, or moving in a different direction? 5 MS. ASCHER: Well, I wasn't here in 6 1999 so I can't speak to that. But, let me just 7 clarify about containers. 8 Our vision is that there will be 9 containers in three places in the harbor in a larger 10 sense, and some supporting container cranes in other 11 places. 12 Clearly, Port Newark/Elizabeth is the 13 main area for container handling because of its 14 inland connections. Likewise Howland Hook on Staten 15 Island has had tremendous City and Port Authority 16 investment and will have rail access. South 17 Brooklyn Marine Terminal that we are talking about, 18 we envisioned handling containers as well. There 19 will be some residual containers handled at Piers 7 20 to 9-B in the maritime industrial complex because 21 those uses, which may be distribution uses, there 22 may be other types of breakbulk commodities there, 23 require container handling, as well. So, you really 24 have four focal points for container handling with 25 Newark/Elizabeth being by far the largest and 38 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Howland Hook in Staten Island, being a very close 3 runner-up because they huge tracts of upland area. 4 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: I understand 5 that, and again I am not trying to compete with 6 Staten Island or New Jersey but handling overflow. 7 And I think that the '99 plan discusses moving to 8 Sunset Park, ultimately for a more expanding 9 container port, but using Red Hook until that is up 10 and operating. So, is that still the 11 Administration's intention? 12 MS. ASCHER: Well, I think the idea 13 that Sunset Park Marine Terminal be a focal point 14 for containers on the Brooklyn side of the harbor is 15 correct. If in fact container growth continues at 16 the rate it has, it is possible that the New Jersey 17 facilities in Staten Island will not be able to 18 handle it. At that point a decision will have to be 19 made by all of us as whether to invest and undertake 20 the complex planning that is necessary to create a 21 sizable container port at Sunset Park. And by 22 sizable you are talking hundreds and hundreds of 23 acres, probably thousands, which is possible, but as 24 a complex planning exercise, I think the '99 port 25 plan pointed out. 39 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: It does. I guess 3 my question is, are we planning to continue these 4 operations in Red Hook until we get to that point 5 with Sunset Park, or to cease these kinds of 6 operations altogether and then see what happens down 7 the road. 8 MS. ASCHER: I think what we said, and 9 maybe I didn't make it clear, is that we are 10 envisioning putting containers in the Sunset Park 11 Marine Terminal as soon as we can physically restore 12 the berth and move the container cranes there. That 13 could take anywhere from, you know, six months to 18 14 months, I'm not sure. That will allow us to handle 15 containers there. Today we cannot. We do not have 16 container cranes or the capability to handle 17 container cranes there. Once those cranes are 18 operating, there is no need to be handling those 19 types in Red Hook. Having said that, we will 20 continue to have container handling capability on 21 Pier 9-A, which is a separate pier, outside of the 22 existing Red Hook container terminal. 23 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So you are 24 planning to keep Red Hook operational until six 25 months, 12 months, 18 months down the road Sunset 40 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Park is -- 3 MS. ASCHER: Sorry, but we don't 4 operate the Red Hook container terminal. It's a 5 Port Authority facility. So you need to speak with 6 folks at the Port Authority. 7 What we have talked about with the 8 Port Authority is our desire to have 9 container-handling operations in South Brooklyn. 10 We've asked their help in securing cranes and 11 securing some of the infrastructure necessary to do 12 that as soon as possible. 13 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: But the City 14 wants to acquire these piers from the state. So, if 15 the City was successful in acquiring these piers 16 from the state, what would the City do with the 17 piers? 18 MS. ASCHER: I think I just outlined 19 what the City intends to do with all of the piers, 20 pier by pier. So, we can go back and go through it 21 from seven down. 22 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: No, I guess 23 because of the other issue that has been raised, if 24 Pier 10 becomes a cruise ship pier, is it possible 25 to continue to do the kind of container port uses 41 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 that are in Red Hook, before Sunset Park is 3 operational? 4 MS. ASCHER: By the time that the 5 cruise terminal opens on Pier 10, there will be 6 container handling capability at the Sunset Park 7 Marine Terminal, absolutely. 8 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. I wanted to 9 ask a little bit about jobs because you talked a lot 10 about job numbers. I think that the draft scope 11 that you have out for Piers 7 through 12, you talk 12 about 290 jobs that were created through the cruise 13 terminal. Today in your testimony you mentioned 14 over 250 jobs, but 41 port calls. 15 So, how many of those jobs are 16 full-time jobs? 17 MR. GANN: My name is Andrew Gann 18 (phonetic) and I work at EDC in the Transportation 19 Department. During regular ship calls at the 20 Brooklyn Cruise Terminal on average we have 255 21 people working. Approximately 89 of them are 22 members of the ILA. When the ships are not there we 23 have essentially a regular staff of approximately 24 eight to ten people who keep the facility in 25 operation. 42 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So, is it 41 days 3 a year you have 250 people, or more than 41 days a 4 year: I just want to be clear. 5 MR. GANN: In our first season we are 6 going to have -- 7 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Right. 8 MR. GANN: -- On those 41 days, 9 that's when you see the majority of those people 10 working. The stevedore at Pier 12 series has sort of 11 their own crew that is the eight to ten people they 12 keep on a regular basis and those are members of the 13 ILA. 14 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So 41 days a year 15 you have 250 people, the other 320 days a year, give 16 or take, you have eight to ten people, or more than 17 that? 18 MS. ASCHER: That's correct. 19 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Eight to ten, 20 okay. I just wanted to sort of point out -- 21 MS. ASCHER: Well, just so you know, 22 that is very typical of any facility that is used by 23 ships. When the ships are in, you have great swarms 24 of people and when the ships are out you have a 25 skeletal staff. So our goal is to get as many ships 43 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 as possible, as many days as possible at the 3 Brooklyn facility. You may be aware that cruise 4 ships prefer weekends and so we are chockablock on 5 weekends and want to push some of that traffic to 6 during the week to create that additional work. 7 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. I have 8 some other questions, but we have a lot of 9 colleagues here and I wanted to turn it over to 10 Councilman Nelson and then Council Member Gonzalez 11 and Council Member Yassky, after that. 12 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: I would like to 13 mention, too, that Council Member Vincent Gentile 14 from Brooklyn has joined us and Council Member Gale 15 Brewer from Manhattan. Thank you. 16 You mentioned the Port of Galvaston 17 as an example, analogy, that it can thrive being 18 smaller. But I don't know. Per capita, would you 19 know about the size in acreage and compared to the 20 amount of containers they receive, as compared to 21 Brooklyn? 22 MS. ASCHER: I don't have those exact 23 figures on those specific ports, but they are fairly 24 to easy to get if you wanted us to put something 25 together. 44 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: I'd be curious. 3 MS. ASCHER: There are a lot of ports 4 like that that are very successful at this point in 5 time in the States. 6 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: It's fairly 7 technical, I realize. I would appreciate that. The 8 last thing I am going to mention is that what I read 9 on page 18, is your goal is to retain these 10 longshore jobs in Brooklyn and grow additional jobs. 11 And you said let me repeat this. "Under our plan, no 12 existing longshore jobs will be lost, rather 13 expanded job opportunities." Could that be 14 contractual? 15 MS. ASCHER: I'm not sure I 16 understand. 17 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Could that be in 18 writing? In other words, you are saying no jobs will 19 be lost. No stevedore jobs will be lost. Page 18. 20 It says, they won't be lost -- as a matter of fact 21 will be more jobs. Not stevedoring jobs, but -- 22 MS. ASCHER: Let me explain so that it 23 is very clear. 24 We will have two cruise berths and we 25 will have a cargo center at the Sunset Park Marine 45 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Terminal. The number of longshore jobs, remember 3 there are other union jobs as well. We are just 4 talking about longshore jobs here. The number of 5 longshore jobs that will be in operation with the 6 two cruise berths alone, before we expand to a third 7 in the Sunset Park Marine Terminal, will far exceed 8 the number of longshore jobs now. As you know, 9 longshore workers move around to where the work is. 10 So these are not employees of a specific type of 11 cargo company. These are longshore workers that 12 work ships, wherever the ships come in, in the local 13 area. 14 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: It's not the same 15 jobs that are presently in the positions at 16 Brooklyn. There is no guarantee -- 17 MS. ASCHER: Well, we didn't say the 18 same job. 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: -- The same 20 people. 21 MS. ASCHER: These people are not 22 employed by a specific company. They are employed 23 on a day-to-day basis by a specific company to 24 handle a ship. But they are not employed by a 25 company that's going to decide to relocate to 46 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Albany. They longshoremen and women will stay with 3 that longshore work in that area. It doesn't matter 4 whether it's a container ship, a breakbulk ship or a 5 cruise ship, they will work those piers. 6 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Okay. 7 MS. ASCHER: It's important to 8 understand, I'm glad you asked that question. 9 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: It is, yes 10 really. But not necessarily the exact same people 11 who have the jobs now. You did say that? 12 MS. ASCHER: I'm sorry. 13 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: What the job is 14 now. 15 MS. ASCHER: Not everybody can become 16 a longshoreperson. 17 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Sure. 18 MS. ASCHER: And if you do, you have a 19 right -- 20 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Sure, you know 21 it's a low rung job. 22 MS. ASCHER: -- Have a right to work 23 there. So, those same people who are now working in 24 Red Hook. Perhaps they are working a combi-ship 25 today. If a cruise ship comes to that pier, they 47 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 will have a right to that work. That is correct. 3 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, Ms. 4 Ascher. By the way, I think you presented your case 5 very well, I have to say. 6 MS. ASCHER: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Madam Chair. 8 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Council Member 9 Yassky. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Okay. Thank 11 you. I appreciate your indulgence. I know I am not 12 a Member of the Committee, I appreciate your 13 permitting me to participate here. It's a matter of 14 real interest. 15 Ms. Ascher, I enjoyed your testimony, 16 and I thought there was a lot of good in there, 17 interest in there, but at the core there is 18 something missing, which to me is the container 19 terminal. And, I can't help but to kind of read your 20 testimony as envisioning the loss of a container 21 terminal at Red Hook, and I just want to be clear 22 about that; am I correct? 23 MS. ASCHER: If you ask me as part of 24 our plan, will there be a container terminal in Red 25 Hook? I though I made it clear that we are 48 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 envisioning having a cruise terminal and marine 3 repair work on Pier 10. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Well, I 5 thought you were clear, but I want to make it 6 crystal clear actually, because, I mean, for 7 example, when you said earlier, you first said, I 8 picture it three places, where there are containers 9 coming into the harbor - one in Newark, one in 10 Howland Hook, one in Sunset Park - and then just a 11 few minutes later you said four kind of focal 12 points, including Red Hook. I want to be crystal 13 clear because -- 14 MS. ASCHER: I want to be clear. 15 We're talking about Pier A. There are container 16 cranes there now and we would propose to leave them 17 there, because the maritime industrial users on Pier 18 7 and 8 will need those cranes. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: And Pier 8 is 20 to be determined, if I get it. It is a shed to be 21 determined through RFP. 22 MS. ASCHER: It is a shed and there 23 are a number of people who are interested in it. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: And nine is to 25 be reserved for use by GIPEC? 49 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 MS. ASCHER: There is 9-A and 9-B. 3 Nine-A has the container cranes and 9-B -- 4 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: I'm sorry, 5 wait, 9 -- 6 MS. ASCHER: -- Again a very large 7 shed, which at the time we are envisioning holding 8 for Governors Island, unless it turns out they don't 9 need it and in that case they wouldn't use it. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: -- Okay. So 11 right. Nine-A is cranes continue to be there to 12 support other stuff going on. 13 MS. ASCHER: Correct. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Eight is to be 15 determined through RFP. 16 MS. ASCHER: Correct. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Nine-B is to 18 be reserved for GIPEC. 19 MS. ASCHER: Correct. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: When do you 21 think they would need it, just out of curiosity. 22 MS. ASCHER: I wish I knew. I don't 23 know. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: And, I guess 25 to me what that amounts to -- I mean, without even 50 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 getting to 10 and 11, which I would get to if it 3 wouldn't, maybe I will, depending on how much I want 4 to try the patience of my colleagues, but, you know, 5 at the very least you are talking about 8, 9-A, 9-B, 6 all which I see kind of a deliberate decision, 7 rather than to use them to keep in operation, a 8 container terminal, which employs hundreds of people 9 at jobs that support families, a decision to say, 10 let's find somebody else on 8, let's hold 9-B for 11 something that you and I both have no idea when that 12 might possibly be and then 9-A will have some cranes 13 there to support other things that are going on in 14 some undefined way. 15 MS. ASCHER: Seven or eight are not 16 part of -- 17 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Just bear with 18 me a second. Let me just ask a question. I guess I 19 don't understand and really the Chair Lappin kind of 20 got it, this I thought effectively. The City's 21 stated policy for years has been, yes, Sunset Park 22 that is a great port. That would make a great 23 container port. That's where it should be and let's 24 work towards that. But until then, let us not kick 25 out a functioning container port that employs 100s 51 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 of people, and I see a departure here from that 3 policy here and I object to it. 4 MS ASCHER: But guess what. I think 5 maybe we are wordsmithing here but the then is now. 6 We are building the Sunset Park Marine Terminal. We 7 have a stevedore, we're committing to put container 8 cranes there. We're looking to put rail there. We 9 have money to put rail there. It is now. Pier 7 10 and 8 have not been part of any container terminal. 11 We are trying to activate them and get more jobs 12 there. Pier 9 being Governors Island is, I agree, a 13 question mark. And if in fact Governors Island does 14 not need that shed in the near term future, we will 15 find another job-intensive use for it until such 16 time as they do. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: I hear that 18 and that's encouraging, that now is now. I would 19 say let's -- no, no, I mean that. Let's say let's 20 be sure. You know, and let's really mean it. Given 21 that you've got a functioning business there to shut 22 it down, lose those jobs before it's really there, 23 before now means there are ships coming in and being 24 unloaded at, you know, the same or more level that 25 you have now. That would I think be a grave 52 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 mistake. 3 MS. ASCHER: I have ships ready to 4 come into Pier 10 with cruise passengers. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: I'm sorry, we 6 were talking about the container part. 7 MS. ASCHER: No, we are talking about 8 -- 9 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: We can get to 10 the cruise part. I think Chairperson Lappin covered 11 that quite effectively. 12 MS. ASCHER: Let's remember, we care 13 about the jobs. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Yes, we do. 15 MS. ASCHER: We don't care about the 16 boxes that are coming anyway. We care about the 17 jobs they create. That's what this is about, 18 economic development. We have cruise ships that are 19 ready to come to Pier 10 to create more jobs than 20 are there now. I'm talking about getting rid of the 21 container activity that is there now. I'm talking 22 about relocating it to a place where it will find a 23 better home, with deep water, with rail, within an 24 industrial neighborhood, which all makes sense. And 25 all I'm saying about timing is, the time to do that 53 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 is now and we are investing funds in doing it. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: And a year 4 from today there will be container ships coming to 5 Sunset Park? 6 MS. ASCHER: We're just doing a study 7 now to see how fast we can shore up the bulkhead to 8 move the container cranes that will be part of the 9 Sunset Park Marine Terminal. I can get back to you 10 on exactly when that will be. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Okay. What I 12 would do, I would leave it at this, I would submit 13 you know now is when, the now for the purposes of is 14 when we know there are container ships coming and we 15 know what the shipping line is that's bringing them 16 in, and how many containers are going to be. That is 17 the now. 18 MS. ASCHER: Remember, I don't 19 determine the ships that are coming. I put the 20 container cranes there -- 21 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: I know you 22 don't. 23 MS. ASCHER: -- And if the cargo wants 24 to come to Brooklyn, they will come. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: And the last 54 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 point. Again, I really appreciate your indulging 3 me, so I will make this the last. When Chair Lappin 4 asked you does the City intend to maintain in the 5 container terminal, and you said, well we don't run 6 it, which of course you don't, but the City is 7 seeking to take ownership and management of the 8 piers; am I correct? And I guess my question is, 9 assuming if the City does in fact take ownership and 10 management of the Red Hook Piers, maybe you have 11 answered this already, will you keep the container 12 terminal in operation right up until their container 13 ships are coming into Sunset Park, or not? 14 MS. ASCHER: The container terminal 15 will not be in operation when we take over the 16 piers. We are as you know going through the ULURP 17 process to acquire the piers. We are beginning 18 design of the cruise terminal on Pier 10. We will 19 supplement it with the marine repair work that goes 20 along with the marine support services initiative I 21 talked about before. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER YASSKY: Okay. Again, I 23 think we are clear, but there is a real 24 disagreement. And you know, the plan you put out 25 has a lot of appealing elements, there is no 55 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 question about it. But, it's like we're going to 3 take a car and put shiny new bumpers and put in a 4 sunroof and a tape deck, but there is no engine. 5 And you've got to keep -- the engine is the 6 container terminal. In my view if you lose that 7 engine, the rest of this is not nearly worth what 8 you have lost. Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you. I 10 have some follow-up questions is terms of the "then" 11 is "now." The Landmark Subcommittee approved a lease 12 for the Axis Company six months ago. Has that lease 13 been signed? 14 MS. ASCHER: I believe there is a 15 couple of final issues that are being resolved in 16 terms of infrastructure investment. There is some 17 additional some substructure work that needs to be 18 done that hadn't been funded. And we are talking 19 with the Axis Company about who is going to fund 20 that right now. 21 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. So, the 22 answer is no, that there are still issues being 23 resolved. So, I just wanted to point out that back 24 then was then. Now is now and we still don't have 25 an agreement on paper that is signed with Axis. So 56 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 we are still -- we're not at a point where they are 3 operating it as BMT. I just wanted to point that 4 out. But, I also wanted to say and just sort of 5 restate for the record, that you said you don't care 6 about containers, you care about jobs. In response 7 to Council Member Yassky's questions you said we 8 don't care about containers, we care about jobs. I 9 think there are some people -- we're going to hear 10 from a lot of different people today, who say a lot 11 of different things, but there are people who feel 12 that containers will bring ultimately the highest 13 number of jobs, that they will reduce the truck 14 traffic and improve the environment to the greatest 15 extent. So, I guess I just wanted to give you an 16 opportunity, I mean, is that how the Administration 17 feels, that you don't care about containers, you 18 care about jobs? 19 MS. ASCHER. It's not about that. We 20 are not choosing between cargos because of what they 21 look like. What we are trying to do on the 22 waterfront is create as many jobs as possible. 23 Container handling is highly automated and is less 24 labor intensive than other forms of breakbulk 25 handling. That was my only point. What we are 57 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 looking for is a mix of breakbulk, auto and 3 container usage in one terminal and over time those 4 trends will change. It may be that cement doesn't 5 want to come here five years from now, it may be 6 that more containers do. But the best thing we can 7 do with a new marine terminal is really to make 8 accommodation for all of those cargos, but be 9 mindful of those activities that create the most 10 jobs. That was my only point. 11 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. The last 12 thing I wanted to come back to is the RFEI for 13 Atlantic Basin. Because you mentioned in your 14 testimony and discussed -- you can turn off your 15 cell phone, please. Thank you -- related maritime 16 uses. The draft scope talks about a hotel, talks 17 about retail, talks about markets. I know at least 18 one respondent talked about building a beach. So I 19 wanted to ask for some more information about what 20 you are really looking to do there. 21 MS. ASCHER: We put out a very 22 open-ended request for expressions of interest, 23 asking for people to respond to a large development 24 of property with as many ideas as they had, so long 25 as they included the marine repair components. The 58 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 responses we got were very creative. What we have 3 decided to do, though, is to take it step-by-step 4 and instead of looking for a commission for a big 5 development to focus solely and primarily on the 6 marina and marine repair work first, so we are 7 moving past that request for expressions of interest 8 to a more finite request for proposals. It is 9 looking for those bidders or others to come back 10 with a more narrowly scripted proposal for 11 developing marine repair work with an adjacent 12 marina. 13 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So, you are not 14 looking to build a hotel and a spa? 15 MS. ASCHER: As part of this request 16 for proposals, no. 17 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. Council 18 Member Gonzalez. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER GONZALEZ: Good 20 afternoon. Thank you Chair Lappin and Chair Nelson. 21 I mean this is a very significant Hearing. I want 22 to say to all the folks who are here from my 23 district, Sunset Park and Red Hook, and everyone who 24 is vested and invested in that district, that this 25 is just the beginning. So I see folks kind of 59 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 nodding their head here and there and that's very 3 fair, but we have had many, many meetings with EDC 4 and I want to say to Kate and to everyone from EDC 5 that we have been learning a lot about the future. 6 But I just want to say to you as a 7 Council Member of that district and to everyone here 8 today, our goal and our vision is the vision that 9 was the vision then. And that means the 197-A, that 10 means the principles that were set in place by the 11 pulse and the people in the community and so that's 12 what we have worked with EDC. There are a lot of 13 people that are creative in and innovative and have 14 given different designs and things, but ultimately 15 we will look to ensure that this economic 16 development, job creation, recreation, parkland, 17 everything that is necessitated in that district for 18 the future of that district because it is about 19 vitalization. 20 So, I just wanted folks to know that 21 we are on top of it. We have been working very 22 closely with EDC and everyone involved, our biggest 23 concern is displacement, displacement of jobs, 24 displacement of companies. Our biggest concern 25 there is also security. That has been a big concern 60 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 for me that I have brought up many times and will 3 continue to do that. This is the beginning of a 4 process. 5 And I want to leave you with that and 6 I want to thank each and every person who is here 7 today. And again, we leave it in the hands of the 8 community and the people in the district and hope 9 that we can come up with a plan that significantly 10 would allow us as a Council, and me as a Council 11 Member, to make a decision that I can live with and 12 we can live with. Thank you. 13 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: I think the last 14 person is Council Member Brewer. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: Thank you 16 very much. I don't know this as much as my 17 colleagues, but I did go on the tour, so I know 18 where Brooklyn is. My question is, very quickly, 19 Congressman Nadler has a certain perspective. I 20 don't know if it was completely articulated by 21 Council Member Yassky, but I want to know what you 22 think of his opinion, very quickly. I know it's a 23 long discussion, but a short version. And second, 24 what's our competition? Is it New Jersey, is it the 25 West Coast. When you are thinking about these jobs 61 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 because they can move elsewhere, what are we doing 3 to enhance? Maybe what you will say is we have the 4 best program and so the jobs won't go anywhere, the 5 ships won't go anywhere, they will all come to our 6 waterfront, but I just wanted to know, what is your 7 competition? 8 MS. ASCHER: Okay, let me try to 9 answer those two questions as quickly as I can. I 10 think Congressman Nadler is here today. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: I've got his 12 testimony. Yes, he's here today. 13 MS. ASCHER: And I am sure he will 14 share with you his vision. I will say that he and I 15 both care deeply about this industry and I give him 16 great credit for keeping this issue alive and 17 rightly pointing out there is a future for South 18 Brooklyn in the maritime industry, and it's in part 19 because of the deep water, it's in part because of 20 the tremendous local market. The Congressman 21 believes that it could someday be the site of a 22 large container port to rival those in 23 Newark/Elizabeth. He has worked hard and diligently 24 to see a freight tunnel built that would make that 25 idea a reality. And indeed if that freight tunnel 62 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 is built, we will be revisiting the idea of whether 3 the major container port should be in New Jersey or 4 it should be in New York. And I think he has done 5 yeoman's work so far with that. But I think that 6 day is a little bit further afield than where we are 7 today. 8 We see Sunset Park Marine Terminal as 9 essentially holding the candle for that possibility, 10 by keeping a diverse array of maritime cargos 11 located on the Brooklyn waterfront, one of which is 12 containers. 13 To your second point about 14 competition: I would not say that we should think 15 about New Jersey as our competition. This is one 16 port. It's an accident of history that in fact the 17 City has some peers and the Port Authority has 18 others. As we think about both cruise and cargo, we 19 should look at the region holistically. It has 20 helped us greatly that Bayonne had the capacity to 21 handle cruise ships, although we lost man hours on 22 the West side, we could not have handled all of that 23 traffic, likewise there is no way that we could 24 handle the volume of containers that moves through 25 Newark and Elizabeth, and we all benefit from the 63 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 lower cost of living because those containers come 3 in there. But the New Jersey container port is not 4 the best place to handle niche' cargos, which are 5 also important to us, cement, lumber, a variety of 6 other cargos that need a home. And I think together 7 we can work sympathetically to create and continue 8 what has been really for 200 years a very robust 9 regional port and I think that is the way we should 10 think about it. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: So, we should 12 be thinking about other countries or the West Coast 13 in terms of the competition and working in the 14 region, is what you're saying? 15 MS. ASCHER: I mean, certain cargos 16 destined for this region will come here. But the 17 competition is really for containers. Containers 18 move seemlessly inland to places like Chicago, St. 19 Louis and Montreal. They don't need to come through 20 New York. Many of those can come through Halifax, 21 they can come through Norfolk, they can come through 22 any other places. That's where New Jersey has 23 become so important because of its rail access. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: So there is an 25 interest regarding trying to keep the containers as 64 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 much as possible, that business. 3 MS. ASCHER: Personally, I think it's 4 very worthwhile to keep the volume of containers in 5 this region up, because it does create jobs in 6 aggregate. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER BREWER: Okay, thank 8 you. 9 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: The last question 10 I have, which is a follow-up: You mentioned because 11 of a quirk, there is some piers that are City-owned, 12 the City is trying to acquire piers 7 to 12 from the 13 Port Authority, there is a new Governor-elect, I 14 wanted to ask if he has indicated a position, where 15 you are in that process at this point with the new 16 Governor-elect? 17 MS. ASCHER: I haven't spoken directly 18 with the Governor-elect or his transition staff. I 19 have heard from many people that everybody knows 20 what he thinks on the subject of the Brooklyn 21 waterfront, but I can't speak to it directly myself. 22 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So, it's not 23 moving forward? It's on hold for the moment? 24 MS. ASCHER: Sorry, what's on hold? 25 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Acquiring these 65 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 piers from the Port Authority? 3 MS. ASCHER: No, we are moving ahead. 4 That's a City process. The Land Use Review Process 5 that we go through is a City process. We have 6 completed an MOU with the Port Authority. Our deal 7 is structured. We cannot complete a contract of 8 sale and effectuate the transfer until we go through 9 the Land Use Review process here at the City 10 Council. 11 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: So the Port 12 Authority has already agreed to give you these 13 piers? 14 MS. ASCHER: Correct. Not a total 15 gift. We'll have to pay to support them, but yes. 16 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: To transfer the 17 piers. 18 MS. ASCHER: The transfer and the deal 19 for the transfer has been completed. The transfer 20 itself can't be executed until we complete 21 successfully the ULURP process here. 22 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Okay. Thank you 23 very much for taking the time to testify. 24 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Okay. For 25 purposes of inclusion and perhaps sanity, we are 66 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 going to go into the Chambers now. Oh, and 3 Congressman Nadler will be the first speaker. 4 (Hearing transferred from Committee 5 Room to Council Chambers.) 6 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you for 7 moving in here so quickly and I wanted to ask our 8 next witness Congressman Nadler to begin. 9 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Thank you very 10 much, Madam Chairperson. I have a formal statement, 11 which I will read which starts off with thanking 12 everybody as usual. But before I do that I'd like 13 to make some comments on the testimony of the EDC 14 before I forget the testimony. 15 First of all, talking about the EDC's 16 plans for these piers is very much following a 17 moving target since it seems to change all the time. 18 We have at the moment at least three 19 different versions before us. One is the scoping 20 document. The scoping document for the EIS, which is 21 the formal process they're starting to go through, 22 is quite different from what Ms. Ascher enunciated a 23 few minutes ago. 24 The scoping document, for instance, 25 has luxury housing in it. It has a hotel on Pier 10. 67 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 It has various other things, which there were no 3 mention of in that presentation. Maybe it's changed. 4 If so, it's been in the last week. 5 Secondly, at the Axis hearing back in 6 June, EDC testified that the City was still in 7 complete support of the 1999 Port Plan and was going 8 to implement it. Well, what you heard today was very 9 different from the 1999 Port Plan, it is in fact a 10 total rejection of that port plan. 11 Now, if they want to reject that Port 12 Plan, well, they are privileged to do so, but they 13 ought to come out and say why. They ought to come 14 out and say why that plan that provided for 30,000 15 new jobs, not 1,700, is wrong. Why it is no longer 16 practicable, why it is no longer financeable, why it 17 is not a good idea, don't just say that we're 18 following it and then come and present the scoping 19 document that doesn't follow it and then come and 20 present here a new plan that also ignores it. 21 So, which is it? We have testimony 22 that they're following the 1999 plan. We have this 23 plan which has nothing to do with the 1999 plan, and 24 we have the scoping document that this has nothing 25 to do with, number one. 68 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Number two, if you look in this -- 3 first of all, at the very end of her testimony she 4 stated that the deal to sell the piers to the Port 5 Authority was complete. That's not true. It is 6 simply not true. 7 Now, they have signed a memorandum of 8 understanding, as I understand it. Which means the 9 staffs have gotten together, but that deal cannot go 10 forward until the Board of Commissioners of the Port 11 Authority, which will be reconstituted under the new 12 Governor in January, votes on it. 13 That's like saying that the rezoning 14 is completed even thought the City Planning 15 Commission of the City Council hasn't voted on it, 16 because the staff signed off on it. And they have to 17 go through a ULURP also before they can even submit 18 it. So, it is not true that that is a done deal and 19 that that is done. 20 Third, they talk about how they're 21 going to replace the containers, the current 22 operation in Red Hook is not going to stop until 23 they start the container operation in Sunset Park. 24 That would be nice if it were true. But they're 25 insisting, but she couldn't give you a date when 69 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 it's going to start, as soon as possible, but, of 3 course, they are insisting that the lease in Red 4 Hook end March 31st, and they want to take Pier 10. 5 They want to take the entire lease for the Red Hook 6 Container Terminal to cease March 31st, they're not 7 prepared to open anything, they can't tell you that 8 they'll open anything in Sunset Park, March 31st. 9 Hopefully, in the year, 18 months maybe. 10 Point four, the Red Hook Container 11 Port is doing 200,000 containers this year. That's 12 400,000 20-foot equivalent units or TEUs. If you 13 look at this nice presentation, which I have seen 14 for the first time today, they say that the ultimate 15 capacity in Sunset Park will be 50,000 containers, 16 or 25 percent of what they're doing right now. 17 So, they want to eliminate the three 18 quarters of the containers they're doing now and 19 presumably three-quarters of the jobs now. 20 Finally we're told, and by the way, 21 the 1999 Port Plan envisioned 30,000 22 directly-related jobs from the container port in 23 Brooklyn. Not 1,700, 30,000. Brooklyn cannot compete 24 with New Jersey container ports. Well, the problem 25 is -- well, yes and no. The forecasts made in the 70 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Year 2000. And by the way their figures, when she 3 says they're 230,000 port-related jobs, those are 4 2,000 figures, based on the two and a half million 5 TEUs that the entire Port of New York and New Jersey 6 was doing then. The entire Port is doing almost 4 7 million now, and I presume there are more than that 8 number of jobs, they haven't updated those figures. 9 But based on the two and half million TEUs and 10 230,000 Port-related jobs the entire Port of New 11 York and New Jersey was doing in 2000, the Port 12 Authority and EDC forecast that with the projected 13 increase in containershipping in worldwide trades, 14 that we would do ten million TEUs in the entire Port 15 by 2020, and 15 to 18 million by 2040. As was 16 pointed out by Ms. Ascher, since then we've had a 51 17 percent increase in container traffic, which is much 18 higher than forecasted, we're up to almost 4 million 19 now, and if you project that out, you're talking 20 about much, much more than 15 to 18 million. 21 In other words, the projected 22 increases are going a lot higher and a lot faster 23 than the 2000 projection, which envisioned 15 to 18 24 million TEUs eventually. 25 Now, if we're going to do 15 to 18 71 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 million, or 20 to 25, which is what it's starting to 3 look like, you are going to need every acre of land 4 you can lay your hands on in Newark, Elizabeth, 5 Howland Hook, Bayonne and Brooklyn to handle it. 6 Now, the old Port Authority, that is 7 to say before the new Port Authority takes over in 8 January, would tell you that based on conservative 9 projections of increased container growth, you don't 10 need a major containerport in Brooklyn. You can 11 handle it in Newark, Elizabeth and Howland Hook. 12 Well, I would contest that, but in any event, that's 13 simply irrelevant because we're seeing that the 14 container growth is going much faster than was 15 projected back in 2000. And you can project that 16 there will be a lot more traffic to be handled, and 17 this clearly will need a major capacity in Brooklyn, 18 and certainly not just the 50,000 containers that 19 they're envisioning. 20 Let me just see, before I get into my 21 major statement, if there is anything else here. 22 Again, everything they talk about in here envisions 23 Brooklyn to be only a very minor containerport, 24 mostly other things, which is exactly different from 25 what the 1999 plan said. 72 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 And one other thing, the rail 3 terminal, she mentions the 65th Street rail yard, 4 this is a little outside this Port 7 to 12, but she 5 mentions the 65th Street rail yard, and she mentions 6 in here that they want to make certain improvements 7 to that rail yard. Planned improvements at 56th 8 Street rail yard. 9 Those improvements would be to bring 10 in a rail dependent use, unquote. What that means 11 is, if you want to build a shoe factory, the shoes 12 will be shipped out by rail, that's a rail-dependent 13 use, just as they destroyed much of the capacity of 14 the Harlem River Yard for rail traffic by building a 15 recycling plant there, that means that that rail 16 terminal will have much less capacity to handle rail 17 traffic for all uses than otherwise, and that should 18 not be permitted. That terminal should be for rail 19 uses, not for rail dependent uses. 20 Now, let me go into my formal 21 testimony. 22 First, I want to thank the Waterfront 23 Committee Chair, Mike Nelson, Landmark Public Siting 24 and Maritime Uses Committee Chair Jessica Lappin, 25 for both of your leadership in arranging today's 73 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 hearing. I want to thank Red Hook's representative 3 in City Council Sara Gonzalez, for her continued 4 leadership in this area, and Council Member David 5 Yassky, also for being longstanding champions of 6 maritime use of the port, and for your openness for 7 examining the Brooklyn Waterfront's place in the 8 larger context of New York City's economic 9 development. 10 The imminent arrival of a new 11 Governor in Albany affords us a golden opportunity 12 to articulate a holistic and long-term vision of 13 regional transportation, development and economic 14 planning. 15 I had been in active communication 16 with Governor Spitzer's Transportation team on the 17 issue of Brooklyn's containerport, among other 18 topics, and I believe we'll have considerable 19 momentum on our side and very willing ears when the 20 new administration arrives. 21 Today the first question at hand is, 22 will and should the City redevelop Piers 7 to 12 in 23 Red Hook, and if it does, what will become the 24 maritime uses that are currently thriving there? 25 As of this writing, I am entirely 74 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 unsure what the City's actual intentions are for the 3 piers and this writing, which was yesterday, we 4 hadn't heard this new presentation, so now we have 5 three different City plans. 6 The City's EDC has publicly preferred 7 one plan for the piers and privately just days ago 8 suggested a different and vague plan, one which 9 appears to have been devised in anticipation of 10 today's charged hearing. 11 It is difficult to know which plan 12 merits a response. For the sake of clarity, I will 13 assume that the plan before us today is one that was 14 publicly released in the scoping report for the 15 environmental impact statement. 16 This plan includes a variety of 17 mixed-use facilities and open space on Pier 7 to 12, 18 and it appears will preclude room for Red Hook's 19 container terminal. 20 Let me just say that anybody who says 21 that the container terminal would be on Pier 9-A, 22 that is far too small an area for an economically 23 viable container terminal. 24 They're just blowing smoke in your 25 ears, they want you to hear a container terminal, 75 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 but what they're really proposing is no container 3 operations. 4 You cannot have a container terminal 5 just on Pier 9-A. It's simply too small. 6 The City's initial assumption here is 7 that the Board of Commissions of the Port Authority 8 will authorize the transfer of ownership of the 9 piers from the authority to the City. In fact, you 10 heard Ms. Ascher say it was a done deal. But this 11 isn't as logical as the City Administration has 12 suggested, and it certainly isn't a fait accompli. 13 Why should the Port Authority in the 14 City agree to such a transfer particularly of both 15 body's stated objectives are to keep a working 16 waterfront active in Red Hook. And why separate the 17 Port Authority from its traditional role as guardian 18 of the Brooklyn waterfront? 19 The Port Authority was established in 20 1921 for the expressed purpose of administrating the 21 common harbor interests of New York and New Jersey. 22 This is still very much true today. 23 New York and New Jersey on reality 24 one port, one region and one market, divided only by 25 a river, and political accidents due to the kings of 76 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 England in the 18th century. 3 The volume of container shipping 4 traffic within the Port of New York and New Jersey 5 is the potential to increase exponentially over the 6 next ten to 20 years. 7 Currently the port is moving almost 4 8 million TEUs, that is 20 foot equivalent units, one 9 40 foot container is two TEUs. And that amount has 10 been forecast to increase to some 15 to 18 million 11 TEUs. And as I said, that forecast was based on the 12 two and a half million being done five years ago. 13 The increase is running much ahead of forecast, so 14 it's probably going to be a lot more than 15 to 18 15 million. 16 Such a boom will tremendously augment 17 the 230,000 port-related jobs in the region that 18 were created as of 2000 by the two and a half 19 million TEUs that the port was then moving, and it 20 will boost many disparate sectors of our regional 21 economy. 22 These statistics are extremely 23 relevant in light of Mayor Bloomberg's statement 24 this week outlining the City's plan for long-term 25 growth and sustainability. 77 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 The Mayor's vision sounds sensible 3 and just on the surface, but it will be entirely 4 incomplete if it does not incorporate the needs of 5 our regional shipping and rail infrastructure of a 6 booming maritime economy and of mass job creation in 7 the industrial sector. 8 It is clear, by the way, I mean one 9 thing that this administration seems not to care 10 about is blue collar jobs. They seem, and Deputy 11 Mayor Doctoroff seem entranced with high-tech jobs, 12 tourism jobs and so forth, but the fact of the 13 matter is, not everybody has a college diploma, and 14 we need blue collar jobs, we need industrial jobs in 15 the City. Some we cannot retain because of 16 competition in China, but the City has for a 17 generation or more been throwing manufacturing jobs 18 out unnecessarily and we ought to protect them and 19 the policies of this Administration seem designed 20 not to protect them at all, and what we're hearing 21 today is just part of that. 22 It is critical that Brooklyn 23 achievers deserve a place within the economy of 24 international shipping. Accept for Red Hook's 25 current movement of, it's not 90,000 but almost 78 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 200,000 containers a year, the balance of the nearly 3 4 million TEUs of cargo is unloaded on the other 4 side of the Hudson River in New Jersey and Staten 5 Island. 6 As a region, if we're ever going to 7 move anything close to the projected 15- to 18 8 million TEUs or greater, we're going to need, as I 9 said before, every acre of available waterfront 10 space in Elizabeth, Newark, Bayonne, Howland Hook 11 and Brooklyn. 12 And by the way, just to show you that 13 planning officials other places can be just as 14 foolish and shortsighted as planning officials here, 15 they are planning, only if they are lucky, a 100- to 16 150-acre containerport in Bayonne. They could do 900 17 acres and then they'd rule the shipping world. 18 They're only planning 100 to 150 acres because some 19 condos and golf courses have a higher priority there 20 and if I were a New Jersey politician, I wouldn't be 21 happy about that. 22 Even if this were not the case, why 23 should New York concede all of the direct job and 24 tax revenues to New Jersey. We are not in 25 competition with New Jersey. The entire port is in 79 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 competition with Norfolk and Halifax, but if we 3 become the hub port and I'm pretty sanguine about 4 that now, we will have a lot more than 15 to 18 5 million TEUs eventually, we will need every acre we 6 could lay our hands on, but even if that weren't 7 true, why shouldn't we have part of it in New York? 8 Why only in New Jersey. 9 Additionally, it costs roughly $600 10 to truck a container across the river from New 11 Jersey. Yet, two-thirds of the population, and 12 two-thirds of the economic activity is on this side 13 of the river. 14 Our economy would greatly benefit 15 from having containers bound from New York City, 16 Long Island, Westchester and Connecticut, landing 17 directly in Brooklyn, and saving that $600 cost per 18 container. 19 And by the way, it is entirely 20 predictable, I cannot guarantee it, it is entirely 21 predictable, if you look at better containers at the 22 increasing computerization, and at the Just In Time 23 Delivery System, that ten or 15 years from now you 24 will load a ship in Yokohama or in Rotterdam full of 25 containers whose cargo is bound only for New Jersey 80 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 and the west side of the river, and you'll load 3 another ship with containers bound only for the east 4 side of the river, and that ship ought to land in 5 Brooklyn and avoid the $600 container charge of 6 getting across the river, not to mention all of 7 those trucks and all that C02 and all that pollution 8 and all that congestion. 9 And remember, two-thirds of the 10 market, the regional market of 35 million people is 11 on this side of the river. 12 And by Brooklyn I mean a yet-to-be 13 realized containerport in Sunset Park centered on 14 the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal but not 15 exclusively the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal. 16 Sunset Park is the proper long-term 17 location on the New York side of the harbor for deep 18 water containerport with the necessary rail access. 19 But there is no current plan for a large scale 20 containerport in Sunset Park, and what you heard 21 before saying maybe 50,000 containers eventually is 22 not a plan for a large-scale containerport. It is 23 quite clear that the 1999 EDC plan for a 300-acre 24 containerport has been gathering -- by the way, that 25 plan is at 300 acres and can handle three and a half 81 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 million TEUs, not the 100,000 TEUs of 50,000 3 containers that they're talking about now. 4 Three-and-a-half million of 20 or so million that 5 will be here eventually. 6 It is quite clear that the 1999 EDC 7 plan for a 300-acre containerport has been gathering 8 dust in the draw since the advent of the Bloomberg 9 Administration, with no work having been done to 10 effectuate or for that matter to replace it, or to 11 refute it, to say why they no longer agree with it 12 or anything, just ignored, except in June when they 13 said they were following it, but that's obviously 14 not true. 15 So, Red Hook is currently, and for 16 all intents and purposes, likely to remain our only 17 container terminal on the New York side of the 18 harbor, and its continued health and vitality are 19 critical for Brooklyn and for New York City. 20 The City should not be allowed to 21 close the Red Hook facility as it plans to do next 22 spring without contemporaneously opening a container 23 terminal of at least equal size, that is to say 24 200,000 TEU capacity right away in Sunset Park. 25 Once all operations are located 82 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 outside of Brooklyn, it will be very difficult to 3 restart a container port in Brooklyn. 4 Though the EDC stated in a June 2006 5 City Council hearing on the Brooklyn waterfront that 6 they're still following its 1999 strategic plan for 7 the Port, reality tells us otherwise. 8 That 1999 plan envisioned two 9 container terminals in Sunset Park totalling 300 10 acres that would directly create 6,000 jobs in ten 11 years and 17,000 jobs at full build out in 20 years. 12 The plan also called for Red Hook to 13 remain open until operations could be moved to 14 Sunset Park. This sensible strategic plan won the 15 support of the local community boards, neighborhood 16 residents, all the elected officials, organized 17 labor and the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce. 18 Today, however, the City's scope of 19 work for the EIS seems only to support a container 20 terminal in theory, while in reality imagining the 21 transformation of Pier 7 to 12 into a mixed use 22 mecca of retail, recreation, cruise ships, housing, 23 dining and other uses, not generally compatible with 24 a functioning containerport. 25 The scope mentions the need for 83 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 preserving maritime uses but I am enormously 3 skeptical of the City's definition of maritime uses. 4 If realized, the City's new plan 5 could spell the end of Brooklyn's coveted piece of 6 the shipping pie. This type of myopia and short-term 7 economic plan will mean fewer jobs for New York 8 City, a less dominant shipping industry, more 9 vehicular traffic, more congestion, more air 10 pollution, and rising transportation costs for all 11 of us. 12 Absent the Brooklyn containerport, we 13 would be entirely dependent on the ports located on 14 the other side of the Kill van Kull. And by the way, 15 that means we would be entirely dependent on ports 16 that would be totally closed if one ship were to be 17 sunk in the Kill van Kull, it would be closed for 18 six months. That's a national security danger. This 19 must not happen. 20 I genuinely hope that my colleagues 21 and I will be able to work in concert with both the 22 City and State toward this goal of regional 23 necessity. 24 Unfortunately, as it stands at this 25 moment, the City administration is conducting itself 84 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 in the manner inconsistent with long-term economic 3 or infrastructure planning. 4 Frankly, I don't find the City 5 Administration to be a trustworthy guardian of our 6 collective waterfront interests, large or small. 7 This administration's lack of 8 credibility has been evidenced time and again to a 9 shortsighted and capricious attitude toward 10 development, and, again, by giving us three 11 different plans, one in the scoping and in two 12 different sessions of the City Council. 13 In sum, we need both commerce and 14 ships coming into New York City. The City and the 15 Port Authority should do everything in their power 16 to preserve Brooklyn's future of containerization, 17 which means preserving Red Hook or simultaneously 18 laying the foundation for a larger, more efficient 19 board in Sunset Park. 20 I strongly urge the City and Port 21 Authority to work with the current operator American 22 Stevedoring, Inc. to ensure the long-term viability 23 of Brooklyn's container terminal. 24 I would point out one thing finally. 25 The City of New York has 578 miles of waterfront. 85 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 578 miles. About 570 of them used for parks, condos, 3 golf courses, whatever. Three miles in Sunset Park, 4 and a few other miles elsewhere, saved for proper 5 maritime uses. 6 We must have a major 7 containershipping industry, we must save the 8 existing container operations on the park until the 9 equal sized at least operation is open. Not planned, 10 open -- I'm sorry. We must save the existing 11 container operation in Red Hook until an equal 12 sized, at least an equal sized operation is open. 13 Not planned, but open, and ready to go, and ready to 14 take over from Monday to Tuesday, the existing 15 operation in Red Hook. 16 To do otherwise would be to betray 17 the working people of New York City, and the future 18 economy of New York City. 19 Thank you very much. 20 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, Mr. 21 Congressman. 22 Congressman Nadler, it appears to 23 have been a fairly fully developed warning, the way 24 I read a lot of your testimony. Perhaps the problem 25 is that containers aren't sexy or splashy or juicy 86 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 for modern urban planners. I think we may be facing 3 that. But I want to go into, your renowned in the 4 transportation area. 5 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: If an accident 7 was to occur in Van Cull (sic), whatever that was. 8 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Kill van Kull. 9 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Kill van Kull and 10 Hodio Ho (phonetic). What would happen? What would 11 you expect would happen, if that was the case? 12 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Well, if a ship 13 were sunk in the Kill, which is only 800 yards wide, 14 it could block the channel for a few months, for 15 three or four months, five or six months until you 16 could get it out of there, that's a major national 17 security problem. Someone might deliberately sink a 18 ship there or bomb it. All of our ports, except for 19 Red Hook, and except for the small operation that's 20 going to be developed at Bayonne, is now on the 21 other side of the Kill in Newark Bay, Howland Hook, 22 Elizabeth, Port Newark. That's a major potential 23 catastrophe for the City. It would choke off goods. 24 Second, it's one of two major choke 25 points. 87 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Food, medical 3 supplies? 4 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Food, medical, 5 whatever comes in by ship. 6 But the other one, well, what you 7 would have to do was divert ships to Halifax, to 8 Baltimore, to Charleston, to Norfolk, bring stuff 9 in, bring it in by truck, which brings up the second 10 problem. Ninety-three percent of everything that 11 gets delivered to New York City, Long Island, 12 Westchester, Southern Connecticut, comes by 13 18-wheeler over the George Washington Bridge. 14 Ninety-three percent. 15 We have, I think it is currently, 16 about a one and a half/two-day food supply in this 17 City. If you eliminated that bridge, we would 18 starve, quite literally. And that's why we need 19 redundancy in the transportation system, which is 20 another argument for the rail freight tunnel. But we 21 need redundancy, because we are totally subject, and 22 by the way, if you want to block the George 23 Washington Bridge, I saw this about five days after 24 9/11 when I read a little squib in the newspaper 25 that said that the FBI had received a notice that 88 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 something very nasty could be coming in over the 3 George Washington Bridge. They consequently had 4 searched everything yesterday, and yesterday nothing 5 came in over the George Washington Bridge. And it 6 occurred to me that if you wanted to starve New 7 York, all you need to do is throw in a bomb threat 8 five days in a row and the FBI will starve us. 9 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: That's why I 10 threw that out. I know I'm leading the witness, but 11 we're not in a court of law right now. Because the 12 stakes are high and they could be higher and 13 division of food riots, sounds overly dramatic, I 14 know. But you know something, we're killing people 15 over parking spaces right now out there. 16 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: You can't block 17 the Narrows. Despite the title, it's not narrow. 18 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: That's right. 19 Right. 20 As I mentioned, and you mentioned, 21 medical supplies, food, so many things coming into 22 this port in Brooklyn, that if we were to be 23 deprived of it, it could be a very, very serious 24 problem. 25 As I said outside, the loss of the 89 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 jobs is important enough, but this goes to the heart 3 of the matter as well, and that's where the 4 Administration, EDC, Urban Planners, et cetera, have 5 to really put into perspective and understand. 6 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Well, let me say, 7 I would agree with that, but I would also say one 8 other thing: Planning is all very well and good, but 9 a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Right 10 now you have 200,000 TEU's a year coming into Red 11 Hook. The Administration says, well, who needs it? 12 We'll get cruise ships, that will provide some jobs, 13 maybe a few, maybe a lot. We'll do other things. 14 You've got that now. Don't give it up, expand it. 15 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Sure. 200,000 -- 16 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: I'm sorry, it's 17 200,000 containers, it's 400,000 TEUs. 18 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you, 19 Congressman, for coming and testifying today. You 20 answered most of my questions up front, but I had 21 one question just about the cruise ship piece, 22 because, you know, I, and the reason I asked the 23 Administration about the job numbers they put out 24 there, is because they seem to be a little bit 25 disingenuous, the numbers of jobs created and jobs 90 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 exist but they're not steady jobs if they're 40 days 3 a year. 4 So, I wanted to ask what your opinion 5 is about expanding the cruise industry to Pier 10? 6 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Well, I'm all in 7 favor of expanding the cruise industry, but 8 expanding it to Pier 10 I'm very dubious about. 9 The reason they want to expand, we're 10 told, this is what I was told by EDC, but the reason 11 they want to expand to Pier 10 is because they want 12 to give up Pier 92 on the West Side. 13 Now, the cruise ship terminal is 14 Piers 88, 90, 92, and they want to give up Pier 92 15 so it can be used as an augmentation for small 16 gatherings, small conventions, along with Pier 94, 17 which is being used for that purpose now. 18 I don't see a great necessity to do 19 that. If there were an essential use, I think 20 everybody would agree if there were an essential use 21 for Pier 10, other than the cruises, you could keep 22 it at Pier 92. Pier 10, eliminating Pier 10 will 23 kill the containerport in Red Hook, and they know 24 that. And it is disingenuous to say, well, keep it 25 just on Pier 9A. That port is now 7, 8, 9A, 9B and 91 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 10. They have eliminated 11 and 12 already, if they 3 eliminate 10, they're saying good-bye to the 4 containerport, good-bye to 400,000 TEUs, good-bye to 5 those jobs, and, frankly, as I said, a bird in the 6 hand is worth two in the bush. We'll handle the 7 cruise -- there are other ways of handling the 8 cruise ships. 9 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you. Thank 10 you. Do any of you have any other questions? 11 COUNCIL MEMBER GONZALEZ: Thank you, 12 Congressman for your testimony, and I just want to 13 say on record that we have been working very 14 closely, your office, yourself and I, with respect 15 to what the future holds for this waterfront. Your 16 expertise, your vision and everything that you have 17 stated, you know, on record, to some extent I 18 completely agree on. 19 I will continue to stay vigilant. I 20 will continue to meet with EDC and the community, 21 because the community is very significant in this, 22 understanding that again the principles that we sign 23 in 2000, the 197-A, which I believe is the wish and 24 the goal of the communities, we have to stay, 25 understanding that we also want to develop and to 92 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 grow as a City. So, there has to be a balance, and 3 you have my commitment that I will continue to work 4 very diligently, and listen to the pulse of each and 5 every person. 6 Thank you. 7 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Well, I thank 8 you, Council Member, and, yes, you and your office 9 have been very diligent in working on this and in 10 working with my office and I appreciate all the 11 efforts that you've done, and I particularly 12 appreciate your bringing up again the principles, 13 Sunset Waterfront Development Principles that were 14 agreed to back in 2000 by the then Chairperson of 15 Community Board, Sara Gonzalez, and by the then 16 Council Member, by the Borough President and by me 17 and by Congresswoman Velazquez and others, by local 18 development people, which envisioned a major 19 containerport which envisioned a major waterfront 20 park, and supported the 1999 plan. 21 And, again, I just want to say one 22 thing: that 1999 plan is a farsighted plan. Things 23 change. I wouldn't mind if the Administration came 24 in and said we are going to modify the 1999 plan or 25 abandon it or replace it with this because, because 93 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 here is why we think it is no longer practical, here 3 is the exchange, and then we can have a debate on 4 it. Then you could have an intelligent discussion of 5 what your best use is. But they haven't done that. 6 They ignored the plan, then they said in June that 7 they were continuing ahead with it, then they put 8 out a scope of work that's inconsistent with it, now 9 they come with a whole new plan that has nothing to 10 do with it, and the fact is that's not dealing 11 honestly with the subject in the long-term way that 12 makes it easy for the community, City Council, to 13 say what are we going to do? 14 COUNCIL MEMBER GONZALEZ: And I just 15 want to also say again and repeat, I said it in the 16 other room, the Committee room, this is a process, 17 this is the beginning of a process, we are not 18 making any decisions today. We are going to continue 19 to work with the Administration. We're going to stay 20 very close to this. Thank you. 21 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: I hope that the 22 only determination that comes out today from this 23 process is that the City Administration will be 24 confronted as it attempts to destroy the existing 25 Red Hook containerport in the next few months. 94 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Thank you very 3 much, Congressman, for taking the time to come and 4 testify in person. 5 CONGRESSMAN NADLER: Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Is there somebody 7 who is still here from Community Board 7? 8 Only because we had agreed to allow 9 the Community Board to testify next, and I think 10 they're just for some reason not here at the moment, 11 we're going to do some things, we're going to allow 12 counsel to read their testimony into the record. 13 Is Community Board 6 here? Is Chris 14 Ward here? While we sort out the community boards, 15 if Chris Ward can come and testify, and then we'll 16 announce the next panel after his testimony. I 17 appreciate your patience. 18 MR. WARD: Good afternoon. I'm 19 Christopher Ward, Managing Director of the New York 20 City General Contractors Association. I'm pleased to 21 be here today and testify on behalf of the Brooklyn 22 waterfront. 23 At the outset, the Committee should 24 know that I previously served as Chief Executive 25 Officer for American Stevedoring and earlier as 95 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Business Director at American Stevedoring. As you 3 know, American Stevedoring currently holds the 4 leasehold for the Red Hook Container Terminal. In 5 the spirit of full disclosure, I have no financial 6 interest in American Stevedoring, except for my 7 401-K plan, and at this point I offer no commercial 8 endorsement for American Stevedoring, except for my 9 overall plan and thought for the Brooklyn 10 waterfront. 11 In addition, I served as the Chief of 12 Strategic Planning and External Affairs, and 13 Director of Port Development for the Port Authority, 14 and oversaw the 1999 plan, which has now been 15 discussed a number of times, and served as well as 16 Senior Vice President of Transportation and Commerce 17 at the New York City Economic Development 18 Corporation, and also served as the Commissioner of 19 the Department of Environmental Protection in the 20 first term of the Bloomberg Administration. 21 Let me begin by heralding the 22 rejuvenation of the City's waterfront. In some 23 measure, it sparked the economic transformation of 24 the City as a whole, particularly on the Manhattan's 25 west side. Reconnecting the waterfront for both 96 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 businesses and people is now a planning goal widely 3 acknowledged and accepted. 4 In thinking about our waterfront, 5 there are a number of central factors we must take 6 into consideration as we look to the future. 7 First and foremost, waterfront 8 property is unique and in limited supply. My joke is 9 that God, notwithstanding global warming, or pier 10 filling in, is not making more waterfront. 11 Second, waterfront property is not a 12 singular piece of real estate, no matter who much 13 defined by a lease or ownership, it is to be 14 understood within the larger context of the 15 community, ecology and economy. 16 While that may sound fairly obvious, 17 I am not sure it has guided development as well as 18 it should in a variety of locations. Not all 19 waterfront property needs to be developed in a 20 similar fashion, simply because it is proven 21 successful or positive elsewhere. 22 Finally, and most importantly, given 23 the variety of historic uses the waterfront has had, 24 and the new ones that have emerged, the waterfront 25 must be viewed in a continual transitional 97 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 framework. 3 It is important to acknowledge that 4 water-dependent uses are not always community 5 priorities. I think the Solid Waste Management Plan 6 made that clear. But nonetheless, the City must find 7 ways to take advantage of our harbor for both 8 economic and environmental reasons. 9 As we look to the future of Red Hook, 10 we must acknowledge that it is in the midst of this 11 dynamic transformation. There is the long-sought 12 part development finally taking shape on Pier 1 13 through 5. Brooklyn has a new cruise ship terminal 14 at Pier 12, and mixed use development plans for 15 Piers 6 and 7 are being reviewed, including the Home 16 Grown Brooklyn Business. 17 In the middle of this Red Hook 18 continues to be a container and breakbulk operation 19 handling record amounts of lumber, breakbulk and 20 European cargo. 21 But I also have to acknowledge that 22 there is one reality that looms largest over Red 23 Hook, and that is Governors Island. While a 24 tremendous gift to the City of New York and truly a 25 gem in the middle of our great harbor, as Deputy 98 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Mayor Doctoroff has so often said, Governors Island 3 is not without its planning challenges. The future 4 of Red Hook must be understood in the relation to 5 the opportunity to make Governors Island all that it 6 can be for the City. 7 To make any redevelopment plan 8 successful on Governors Island, there must be 9 reliable transportation options to and from the 10 Island in appropriate development. The Coast Guard's 11 EIS in disposing of Governors Island made it clear 12 that the use of the Red Hook terminal was critical 13 in development options for the Island. 14 But that is not to say that we must 15 wipe the Brooklyn Waterfront Clean and do whatever 16 has to be done for that redevelopment effort. 17 For Brooklyn and the City as a whole, 18 the quality of redevelopment of Governors Island is 19 as much about the thoughtful redevelopment of Red 20 Hook. Back to the City's inception when Buttermilk 21 Channel was referred to by Brooklynites, walking to 22 the Island at low-tide to milk cows, the two must be 23 thought of as one. 24 Therefore, Red Hook must be viewed as 25 a maritime terminal in transition with a clear need 99 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 for the City to maintain a variety of maritime 3 operations on the Brooklyn waterfront. 4 And most importantly, given the lead 5 time for the redevelopment of Governors Island, 6 there are important planning opportunities to be 7 realized. 8 During this time, Red Hook could play 9 a critical role in the material storage and delivery 10 for large scale redevelopment underway in Lower 11 Manhattan, as well as for the Island. 12 From the Freedom Tower Steel to the 13 winged roof of the Caltrava designed PATH station 14 and all of the other material needs for the major 15 construction efforts set forth in lower Manhattan, 16 the Red Hook Terminal could play a key role in 17 material delivery via water rather than truck. Pier 18 9A and 9B is an ideal location for just this sort of 19 effort. The existing lumber terminal is an excellent 20 model for this kind of construction distribution 21 center. This would create even more jobs and 22 eliminate unnecessary truck trips. 23 The City's cruise ship operation in 24 Red Hook should also continue to expand. With the 25 investment the City has made in the Brooklyn 100 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 terminal, we must make sure that the economic 3 utilization of that facility is fully maximized. 4 While the jobs generated are in fact quite small, 5 the economic returns to the City and to Brooklyn 6 should be realized. 7 Cruise ships in the existing 8 container operation are not mutually exclusive. As 9 Miami and Fort Lauderdale have demonstrated there 10 are, in fact, economies of scale in maintaining 11 both. Given the seasonal aspect of cruise and the 12 limited number of full-time jobs it creates, a 13 year-round container operation, with 300 or more 14 longshoremen, provides a consistent and well-trained 15 workforce for that operation. Candidly, it allows 16 the cruise ship operator, who has a customer service 17 requirement, to get the best longshore labor force 18 available. 19 Finally, Red Hook container 20 operations are thriving. As Congressman Nadler made 21 clear, harborwide the demand for container space is 22 growing faster than the Port Authority can keep up 23 with. 24 When I was at the Port Authority, two 25 studies were conducted in 1999 studies that the 101 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Congressman mentioned, to be acknowledged the 3 Giuliani Administration at that time was not that 4 sympathetic to the Port Authority, in fact, was 5 looking for an alternative plan from the Port 6 Authority's plan, but ironically both of those plans 7 came up with the same conclusion for Brooklyn, that 8 while large scale container operations are beyond 9 the scope of the current planning horizon, a 10 self-sustaining container operation could be an 11 important part of port development harborwide. 12 Both studies, as Congressman Nadler 13 said, concluded that a long-term location is clearly 14 available to South Brooklyn Marine Terminal. The 15 challenge is to grow the business to maximum levels 16 and then transfer the Red Hook operations to that 17 more appropriate location in South Brooklyn, when 18 Governors Island is ready for full transformation. 19 With the City's and Congressman 20 Nadler's focus on ensuring that some portion of the 21 waterfront be maintained for industrial purposes, 22 South Brooklyn could then be the hub of a 23 multi-dimensional goods distribution center taking 24 advantage of both rail and waterborne operations. 25 I'm going to break somewhat from my 102 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 testimony here, because I must say, I, too, was 3 unclear to the actual status of, one, the South 4 Brooklyn Marine Terminal, in terms of the lease, 5 with access, as well as the City's plan for the 6 termination of the Red Hook Marine Terminal in 7 Brooklyn. But I would say that it is my 8 understanding under the City's plan for South 9 Brooklyn, it does envision waterborne dependent use, 10 such as barge recycling, as well as some car storage 11 at that facility. 12 However, I have seen no market 13 analysis, or in my experience have ever seen any 14 justification for a waterborne analysis for cars 15 being brought to the Brooklyn waterfront. 16 But nonetheless, by transforming and 17 relocating certain operations to South Brooklyn, we 18 will have accomplished a whole variety of waterfront 19 goals. We will have maintained the high-paying 20 industrial, longshoreman and teamster jobs that 21 exist today, we will be developing waterborne and 22 delivery systems, taking large amounts of trucks off 23 the road. We can expand the existing cruise ship 24 terminal to maximize the existing space that's at 25 Pier 12 today with other maritime-based activities, 103 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 such as marinas and boat yards, and finally we will 3 have then had a platform for thoughtful planning for 4 Governor's Island. 5 Throughout all of this, I hope you 6 have begun to see the opportunities to shape a 7 dynamic waterfront that neither loses its present 8 nor forfeits its future, but rather moves forward in 9 a transition through a variety of development and 10 operational schemes. My sense of that dynamic 11 opportunity includes a variety of initiatives over 12 the next three to five years when Governors Island 13 becomes less of a vision and more of a reality. 14 And I'll end with, having been at 15 this seat before testifying in a variety of ways, 16 far too often we think of these issues as singular 17 conclusion. They are not. Waterfront development 18 must be about Citywide and local needs, economic 19 development and ecology, maintaining the benefits of 20 today with revitalized opportunities for the future. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, former 23 Commissioner Ward. 24 Any synopsis, or do you just want to 25 sum it up with how you feel about -- you said it, 104 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 but in shorter version, about the Stevedores that 3 are there right now and the importance of 4 maintaining that facility? 5 MR. WARD: Yes. My other line is that 6 every City that finds itself on the side of an ocean 7 finds ways to improve those connections to the rest 8 of the worldwide economy. 9 Whether it is for commerce purposes, 10 whether it' for security purposes, or whether it's 11 for health and safety purposes. We know that the 12 market today is driven container volume to the 13 levels that you can develop a self-sustaining 14 containerport in South Brooklyn. 15 The model is that it was in the 1999 16 year plan, is to take this transitional period to 17 grow that to the maximum extent, secure the location 18 in South Brooklyn, when container terminals are in 19 fact mobile, and move that operation in its 20 entirety, if necessary, given the long-term plans 21 for Governors Island to that appropriate location in 22 South Brooklyn. To lose what you have today is 23 foolish waterfront planning. 24 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Okay. Not to 25 encapsulate the amount of space that they presently 105 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 have then? Not suggesting that we move any of that 3 to Governor's Island, which is, of course, we're not 4 allowed to do. 5 MR. WARD: No. I do need to speak to 6 Governors Island though, because it is clear within 7 the Coast Guard EIS that for Governors Island to be 8 successful, you need some interstitial and 9 transportation space in and around Red Hook. 10 The notion then is to use this 11 planning period when Governors Island, which will 12 take perhaps longer than we would hope, a lot of 13 time to get ready for full transformation to use 14 this -- 15 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: You've thrown out 16 about ten plans already. 17 MR. WARD: To grow the maximum 18 maritime activities you can and then relocate it to 19 South Brooklyn. The key question candidly is the 20 status and utilization of the 110 acres in South 21 Brooklyn. 22 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Well, thank you. 23 We appreciate your testimony. 24 Any of my colleagues have any 25 questions for Mr. Ward? 106 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Okay, thank you very much. 3 Would this panel please come forward. 4 John McGettrick. Greg O'Connell. 5 Also Ray Hall, please. Please 6 approach the bench. Thank you. You're honored to be 7 represented. 8 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: If you could 9 state your name and begin, that would be great. 10 MR. O'CONNELL: Good morning. My name 11 is Greg O'Connell. I've been a commercial real 12 estate developer in South Brooklyn for nearly 35 13 years, concentrating on the restoration and 14 management of four civil war warehouses on the Red 15 Hook waterfront. 16 If you've ever been to the Big R Show 17 in Red Hook, or more recently shopping at the new 18 Fairway Market, you're in my neck of the woods. 19 I have also been a member of 20 Community Board 6 since 1997, and I am currently the 21 co-chair of the Waterfront Economic Development 22 Committee. 23 As a developer, my primary goal has 24 been to bring businesses, jobs, cultural events, 25 people and excitement to the Brooklyn waterfront, a 107 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 place once known crime, drugs and packs of wild 3 dogs, while at the same time preserving and 4 protecting its industrial and historical character. 5 I have been able to provide small and 6 mid-sized space to over 150 businesses, artists, 7 start-ups, small manufacturers, and warehousing 8 operations employing over 1,200 people. My vacancy 9 rate is zero. 10 By most measures, this would be 11 considered a success. But what makes Red Hook the 12 kind of place where businesses want to locate and 13 people want to visit, and what I believe will 14 sustain it in years to come, is not just the dollars 15 and cents price per square foot, but what I call 16 "the mix." The mix is educational and cultural 17 activities that make it accepting and stimulating. 18 Part of that mix can and should be maritime uses. 19 Before I talk about my own experience 20 as a waterfront property owner and as a resident of 21 Brooklyn, I have observed the loss of valuable 22 maritime industries with increasing dismay. 23 It was particularly striking on 24 September 11th, in the absence of real maritime 25 infrastructure, something as simple as cleats along 108 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the seawall hampered both the rescue and recovery 3 efforts. 4 Although I am not a maritime 5 operator, I have also watched with increasing dismay 6 as my immediate neighbors in Erie Basin Bargeport 7 and some of my own maritime tenants, including the 8 New York Water Taxi and even the Waterfront Barge 9 Museum, struggled to survive and grow in the face of 10 rezoning regulatory obstacles in loss of maritime 11 infrastructure. 12 As a builder and a consumer of sand, 13 stone, cement, asphalt and diesel fuel, all brought 14 to the City and moved within the City by way of tugs 15 and barges, I am also particularly sensitive to the 16 vital importance of a healthy maritime industry, 17 which brings me back to my own experience as a 18 developer in the mix. 19 In addition to traditional 20 businesses, many of my tenants are part of what's 21 now being called the creative industry. Individual 22 artists, as well as master craftsman, like 23 glass-blowers, benders, etches, furniture makers, 24 set designers and photographers, although the arts 25 themselves are not the biggest job generators, they 109 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 are tremendous catalysts to economic growth. 3 Since space is critical to the 4 survival of arts groups, I have for the last 12 5 years provided free exhibition space to the Brooklyn 6 Waterfront Artist Coalition, performance space for 7 Dance Theater, Etc., which sponsors an annual 8 outdoor arts festival every spring, and docking 9 space for the waterfront museum, which serves as a 10 floating classroom during the school year, and as an 11 arts venue in the summer. 12 This year we will be able to offer 13 these and other local non-profits free year-round 14 office space, the arts and nonprofits part of the 15 mix. 16 Another part of the mix, public 17 access to the waterfront. A little bit of serenity 18 and nature and a chance to watch the workings of the 19 harbor up close. We have nearly completed a quarter 20 of a mile esplanade along the water's edge that 21 includes a perennial garden, jetty, boardwalk, park 22 and best views of the Statue of Liberty in New York, 23 all open to the public seven days a week. People 24 love it, as the migratory birds and butterflies. 25 If the City is interested in 110 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 promoting public access to the waterfront, it might 3 consider providing private waterfront and landowners 4 with some incentives, as it is the cost of 5 construction, maintenance insurance and increased 6 real estate taxes I paid. 7 What I have learned from the 8 experience is that the waterfront doesn't need to be 9 an either/or waterfront: either business or housing, 10 either arts or industry, either parkland or 11 industrial maritime, the new waterfront can and 12 should accommodate all of these activities. 13 On my own property there is 14 tremendous potential for new exciting waterfront 15 uses. Just to name one of the many: In New York 16 Harbor, for example, there are over 200 tugs and tow 17 boats with literally no place to tie up and purchase 18 supplies. One day I hope to provide these and other 19 working vessels the opportunity to dock and shop at 20 Fairway. 21 The Coast Guard patrol boats, fire 22 boats and police boats are already tying up at the 23 New York Water Taxi Landing for a quick trip to 24 Fairway. 25 I also believe that if the City is to 111 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 survive, we must embrace what a friend of mine calls 3 a "Back To The Future Scenario," where cargo, 4 freight and people are increasingly moved by water 5 within the City to relieve the dangerous congestion 6 on our highways and its attending pollution. 7 Think of it, on the South Brooklyn 8 waterfront alone, Loews, Ikea, Home Depot and 9 Jethro, all now serviced by the heavily congested 10 BQ, receiving freight by water or Pathmark and 11 Fairway receiving produce from the Hunts Point by 12 boat. 13 I would like to say that there is no 14 waterfront at all working or otherwise if property 15 owners are prevented from making reasonable 16 improvements to the water's edge due to permitting 17 and regulatory obstacles. 18 I know that the City Council has held 19 hearings on this subject in the past, but I would 20 encourage you to reassess some of the regulatory 21 practices that are seriously hampering positive 22 development on the Red Hook waterfront and our 23 harbor's maritime infrastructure. 24 New York Harbor, its shores and 25 waterways are integral to the region's economy and 112 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 quality of life. Many uses compete for space along 3 our water's edge, and as the City goes forward in 4 its waterfront planning, I urge you to give 5 water-dependent and industrial maritime uses special 6 priority. 7 Once you lose industrial maritime 8 operations, it's nearly impossible to get them back. 9 Thank you for your time and consideration. 10 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. 11 I was remiss, due to the many people 12 that want to speak, we're going to have to limit it 13 to about two minutes approximately. I should have 14 told you then, but then is now. So, starting now. 15 Not that two minutes you have to just stop 16 immediately, but to wrap it up at that point. We'd 17 appreciate it. We'll be here until nightline 18 otherwise. Thank you. 19 MR. REED: Good afternoon, ladies and 20 gentlemen. My name is Mickey Reed. I'm speaking for 21 my mother, Dorothy Shields, Tenant Association 22 President for Red Hook East. She apologizes for not 23 being present today, but she expresses her blessings 24 to you also. 25 She states that this containerport is 113 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 of great importance to our many community residents 3 employed there. More developments are not the answer 4 to uplifting jobs. More housing in the area that 5 will not be for the residents of Red Hook, not 6 solving our staggering unemployment rate. So, to 7 take away these jobs is only adding to the problems 8 we are faced with every day. 9 So, I'll appeal to you, ladies and 10 gentlemen, renew their lease. This containerport is 11 vital, not only to our residents, also the residents 12 of the employees that work there. Without jobs 13 people resort to drug dealing, selling, robbery and 14 et cetera, and this is something we're working hard 15 to change. We want to root out that so-called 16 "gentrification" factor that plagues our 17 communities will children will see their parents 18 going to work, understanding that this is what one 19 must do to live, working for what you want, not that 20 you have to consider a life of crime or welfare to 21 survive. 22 Sincerely, thank you in advance. Have 23 a very happy and merry Christmas and a blessed New 24 Year. Dorothy Shields. 25 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir, 114 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 for another perspective. 3 Yes, sir. 4 MR. HALL: Yes, hi. My name is Ray 5 Hall. I only need one minute. 6 I'm a co-founder of Red Hook ASI. It 7 was founded in 1994. Me and my brother created this 8 program, it created a safe street program for the 9 kids in Red Hook. Basically that's what I'm here to 10 support ASI, and these children have a future and 11 possibly working in their own community, walking to 12 work, which is the ideal dream for us, as residents 13 of Red Hook, and I just want to do anything and 14 anything I could do to help the Council to make sure 15 that the ASI stay in Red Hook. They've been a great 16 family, a good neighbor to the people in the Red 17 Hook. I mean, for the past five or six years, don't 18 need to call on these guys. They're always there in 19 assistance, and I'll urge you all if you can to keep 20 ASI in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. 22 We really appreciate your testimony. This really 23 adds another aspect to everything. 24 The next panel, please, consists of 25 Edward J. Kelly; Sandy Pope; Phaedra Thomas; and 115 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Dorothy Siegel. 3 Also Tom Fox, would you like to? 4 MR. FOX: Next panel. 5 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Next panel? All 6 right. 7 And whoever would like to begin first 8 and, of course, just state your name for the record 9 and then you can begin. Which in the panel would 10 like to begin first? 11 MS. SIEGEL: Well, I have a dentist 12 appointment, so let me go first. 13 My name is Dorothy Siegel. I am 14 reading a statement. Actually, I won't read the 15 entire statement because a lot of it has been said 16 from the Working Families party. I'll read you 17 highlights and I'll leave you with my testimony. The 18 Working Families Party is opposed to the transfer of 19 the Red Hook Piers to the EDC. 20 We believe it is imperative to 21 preserve a major freight port facility in Brooklyn. 22 We're concerned that this proposal is a big step in 23 the wrong direction. 24 Our most fundamental interest is good 25 jobs for the working families. The City's 1999 Port 116 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Plan estimated the containershipping in Brooklyn 3 would generate 18,000 jobs, most of them good, union 4 jobs, accessible to the City's blue collar 5 workforce. We believe that development of the 6 Brooklyn waterfront can, and should be pursued in 7 ways that do not foreclose the possibility of 8 freightshipping into Brooklyn. This is about more 9 than good jobs. 10 If all containershipping into 11 Brooklyn were halted, it would be extremely 12 difficult, if not impossible, for the City to 13 recover that capacity when and if the South Brooklyn 14 Marine Terminal Container Facility is completed. 15 Shifting all container traffic to 16 Jersey and Staten Island means that goods would have 17 to be brought into the City by truck. I think we all 18 know, I won't bore you, asthma rates and all this 19 kind of stuff, my personal business is education 20 research, it's a crisis in the City right now, and 21 by doing this plan that the EDC has put forth, 22 whichever one it is, they will be not addressing the 23 crisis in asthma and in other related ailments. 24 In general, the Working Families 25 Party believes the City needs to do more to support 117 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 industrial employment in New York. We're not against 3 all development on the waterfront, but we do believe 4 that certain areas, especially and including the Red 5 Hook Piers, should be reserved for maritime 6 industry. 7 We call on the Council to keep the 8 Red Hook ports operational, at least until a 9 container terminal is developed in the South 10 Brooklyn Marine Terminal, and we ask you to take 11 active steps to prevent the transfer of these piers 12 to the EDC, and ensure its continued use for 13 containership. 14 If I could just add on a personal 15 note, I live three blocks from Pier 7. I have lived 16 there for 30 years, and when I look down the street, 17 I see huge ships unloading, and it looks like they 18 are only a few yards away, because they're so huge. 19 The area that I live in used to be called South 20 Brooklyn, it's gotten fancy since I've been there 21 now, it's called "Cobble Hill" and "Carroll 22 Gardens," and I've lived there for 30 years, I've 23 been very active in that community, and for the past 24 eight years I've worked to develop the Working 25 Families Party as a force for progressive change, in 118 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 that area and elsewhere. 3 In the last election, the Working 4 Families Party, in my assembly district, which is 5 this area, which encompasses these piers, that's 6 7,575 votes. The people in my community, when they 7 came out to vote, I met them at the same corner I've 8 been standing on for 30 years on Election Day, said 9 no luxury condos on the waterfront. People were 10 pissed at this plan. They went to the EDC 11 presentation, a similar one that you saw today, and 12 they are angry. So, please do not hand over these 13 piers to EDC. 14 Thank you very much, and my dentist 15 thanks you. 16 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. Okay. 17 Next panelist, please. 18 MR. KELLY: Yes, I guess we'll go from 19 right to left. 20 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: That's okay. 21 MR. KELLY: Good afternoon, Mr. 22 Chairman, Committee members, ladies and gentlemen. 23 Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to 24 offer testimony regarding the proposed development 25 plan for the South Brooklyn waterfront. 119 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 My name is Edward J. Kelly, and I am 3 the Executive Director of the Maritime Association 4 of the Port of New York and New Jersey. I have held 5 my current position for two and one-half years. The 6 Maritime Association of the Port of New York/New 7 Jersey represents over 400 paid corporate and 8 individual members who constitute a broad-based 9 coalition of maritime-related companies encompassing 10 shipping lines, terminal operators, ocean-going 11 pilots, tug boat and towing operators, admiralty 12 attorneys, marine underwriters, hydrographers and a 13 host of other concerns that are vital components of 14 the New York, New Jersey maritime community. 15 Since 1873 the Maritime Association 16 has been actively dedicated to the operational 17 safety, security, ecological enhancements, and 18 economic competitiveness of maritime commerce in the 19 Port of New York and New Jersey. 20 Prior to assuming my current role as 21 Executive Director of the Maritime Association, I 22 have spent over 30 years as an active member of the 23 maritime community and have held a series of senior 24 executive level positions in the international line 25 of shipping business, including serving as North 120 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 American President and CEO for such notable 3 international firms as YS Line, Nippon Liner Systems 4 and Cho Yang Line. I have also spent many years as a 5 Director of the New York Shipping Association, the 6 Carriers Container Council, the United States 7 Maritime Alliance and many joint labor and 8 management committees and trust funds. 9 I'm the current vice chair of the 10 Mid-Atlantic Ocean-Observing Regional Association, 11 the President of the National Association of 12 Maritime Organizations, a Director of the United 13 Seamen Service and a Director of the Maritime 14 Information Service of North America. 15 I am a graduate of the United States 16 Merchant Marine Academy and have sailed as a deck 17 officer on US flagged ships. I completed my MBA 18 studies at Pace University in New York City, and 19 hold a certificate in Intermodal Transportation from 20 the FDR Institute. 21 Having spent so many years as an 22 active member of the New York/New Jersey Maritime 23 Community, I am intimately aware of the workings of 24 the poor, the need of the poor to retain its 25 competitive position by continuing to provide the 121 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 highest level of safety, security, ecological 3 protection and economic viability to the vessel 4 owners and operators who bring their vessels to our 5 harbor, as well as for the extensive network of 6 tugs, barges, ferries and other local craft that 7 serve our daily needs. 8 Based on these and other concerns 9 widely shared throughout the maritime community. We 10 viewed this proposal as resulting in an unwarranted 11 and unacceptable -- 12 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Mr. Kelly, if you 13 could sort of summarize, I'd appreciate it. 14 MR. KELLY: Oh, certainly. 15 Basically what we're running through, 16 and you can read the rest of my testimony at your 17 leisure, is that the maritime community in New York 18 is an essential component of over 233 full-time 19 equivalent jobs producing 12.6 billion in annual 20 wages, generating 2.1 billion in annual tax revenues 21 to State and local government. We believe that the 22 City, the Port, and most certainly the Port 23 Authority, has recognized the urgent and dramatic 24 growth expected in containerized and other volumes. 25 We therefore would say if we are looking at slightly 122 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 in excess of 4 million TEUs at present, and we're 3 moving to 16 million in the rather short-term future 4 at a minimum, since current real growth rates have 5 exceeded the CPIP estimates provided by the Port 6 Authority, that would result in a pro rata basis, 7 moving from 200,000 TEU, moving through the current 8 Red Hook facility to a need for 800,000, certainly 9 not the 50,000 envisioned to be moved to a new 10 facility, when and if it ever comes to fruition. 11 Certainly the picture of those 12 Whirley cranes (phonetic) are totally outdated, and 13 they were projected to be there, I think, by 2008, 14 and the proposed interim facility of containers on 15 9-A is grossly inadequate. 16 Having been an international ship 17 operator for years and years, we wouldn't even 18 bother reading a proposal for something that was 19 that size and that type of capability. This move, 20 unless now is really now, in other words, we close 21 it Sunday night, we reopen Monday morning, in a new, 22 bigger facility. What this port obviously needs, and 23 which certainly should and could be generated and 24 located in Brooklyn. Because less than 20 percent of 25 the containers that enter this port move by rail. 123 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 The vast predominance are final destination goods, 3 coming into this port and the population is here. 4 Brooklyn and Long Island area is a major consumer 5 location. 6 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: We may need you 7 for another hearing because your credentials are 8 quite impressive, there's no doubt about it. 9 So, you feel New York City would lose 10 tax revenue as well? 11 MR. KELLY: They will lose tax 12 revenue, you will lose jobs, the ability of the 13 Brooklyn facility container operations to be 14 sustained will die, and that's a shame. ASI is one 15 of the most productive operators here in the Port, 16 and they have certainly shown that there is an 17 ability to handle containers. 18 The NYEDC said Brooklyn is not 19 compatible with containers, how do they explain 20 200,000 TEU that is currently moving here, and the 21 800,000 proportionally that should move here if we 22 believe the statistics the Port Authority has 23 produced. 24 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: They prefer not 25 to, I'm sure. Thank you for your expertise. 124 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 MR. KELLY: Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: I really 4 appreciate your testimony. 5 MS. POPE: Good afternoon. My name is 6 Sandy Pope. I'm President of Teamsters Local 805 in 7 Long Island City, and I represent the workers 8 employed at American Warehousing on Pier 7 and 5 9 right now. 10 I had a whole typewritten testimony 11 but after I listened to the EDC presentation and 12 after hearing Congressman Nadler and others speak so 13 well, I decided that I need to point out some 14 problems with what the EDC said in terms of increase 15 or loss of jobs, in particular. 16 There are companies on the piers 17 right now, they are going to be evicted with the EDC 18 plan. So, there is no denying that there will be a 19 loss of jobs, they do not all work as stevedores. 20 They, many of them worked in the warehouse operation 21 that I represent, about 75 people, when they are at 22 full, you know, when the season is going and we 23 expect that top grow because the cocoa ships, they 24 warehouse the goods, were getting increased interest 25 in business. So there's 75 jobs right there. 125 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 There is also a company that has 3 already said they're going to close down. Express 4 Haulers has been on those piers for many, many 5 years, and because of the continuing eviction 6 notices that they have gotten, they have lost their 7 major customer and have announced this week that 8 they are going to close down and that is 40 9 long-term good-paying teamster jobs, by the way. 10 There's another lumber company on 11 that property, and they are looking to secure 12 another place and were promised assistance by the 13 EDC, and nothing has come through, no communication. 14 They have been investigating property 15 in New Jersey and found out that the increased costs 16 would be so high they would have to pass on 17 unreasonable increases to their customer. So, 18 they're still working at it. 19 So, you already heard about the 20 containerport, and just to do the math, 41 days of 21 cruise ships, even if it increases a little bit, 22 let's see, one a week in that pier and then they do 23 another pier, that's still nothing compared to what 24 a full-scale working containerport is going to do to 25 provide Stevedoring jobs. 126 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Then we've got Phoenix, who is 3 supposed to replace, and you evict these companies, 4 you bring in Phoenix, Phoenix already has 400 5 workers in Queens. They are going to move those 400 6 workers. They are not going to open their doors to 7 new people in Brooklyn. In fact, you're going to 8 have people coming in in shifts, 7:00 a.m., 3:00 9 p.m. in droves, coming into a very congested area 10 with no public transportation to speak of. 11 I think it is a really poorly thought 12 out plan in terms of the growth of jobs. And the 13 only evidence they have of Phoenix's ability to 14 increase jobs is the owner's statement that he 15 thinks that they might be able to increase jobs down 16 the road by 100. But we still have a net loss of 17 jobs. 18 So, finally, I just want to say that 19 I think that the EDC's attitude towards blue collar 20 workers, their public statements in the newspapers, 21 calling them low rung workers and these low rung 22 jobs, and the other statement where they said that 23 these are labor-intensive jobs, we don't need these, 24 and now today Kate Ascher said, oh, they're 25 labor-intensive, that's good. So, we don't really 127 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 know where they stand, except for they've never 3 apologized for their disdainful and I believe racist 4 remarks, and I think they are the wrong organization 5 to be managing this operation. It should stay in the 6 hands of the Port Authority. It should be a regional 7 effort with the City, the State and the PA. 8 Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. 10 Convoluted, yet to the point, you were saying about 11 EDC. Okay, thank you. 12 MS. THOMAS: Hi. Good afternoon. 13 Phaedra Thomas, Executive Director of the Southwest 14 Brooklyn Industrial Development Corporation. Thank 15 you, Chair members, and regular members, for having 16 us here today. 17 I just want to go over briefly that 18 we're in a larger world in Southwest Brooklyn of 19 many different maritime operations, what those 20 operations are, and a little bit about 7 through 12, 21 and then obstacles facing our maritime companies. 22 If you go around the corner in Red 23 Hook to Gowanus, you have many different barging 24 operations, new and proposed and existing that are 25 growing that handle over 2 million tons of materials 128 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 every year which removes 134,000 truck trips, and 3 this is the oil and the aggregate to that are the 4 heaviest loads on our roadway infrastructure. In 5 Gowanus Industrial Park, which is adjacent to the 6 area basin bargeport, a quarter of a million tons of 7 salt is moved in by barge now and that is the salt 8 that salts our streets every year and melts the ice 9 on the roadways and there will be a growth of 10 aggregate materials at that site as well. 11 And the Erie Basin Bargeport, home to 12 over 200 barges and ocean-going vessels that take an 13 additional 10,000 trucks off the road each day. 14 These are essential, not only great quality jobs but 15 also essential environmental operations that have to 16 happen. 17 And there is a huge demand. So, all 18 of this is growth. Benson Scrap Metal, that's been 19 on Gowanus Canal for well over a decade just started 20 barging in March of this year, and those take off 60 21 trucks per week, just in that one move alone, and 22 there is a new barging operation coming on the Canal 23 as well. 24 So, the demand is huge. For the small 25 operations that I just mentioned, and also for Hugo 129 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Neu and the Axis terminal, and I'd just like to say 3 on the Axis deal, the community supported it, we all 4 worked hard with Council Member Gonzalez and this 5 Council to get that through and it hasn't been 6 signed yet by EDC and I think we really need to make 7 sure that that is signed. 8 When we come to 7 through 12, there 9 is a lot of I think interesting concepts on 7 10 through 12, but this whole movement is way premature 11 and we don't think that EDC should be doing this 12 right now. 13 A hotel on Pier 10 would be 14 detrimental. It would permanently stop it from being 15 able to be used for general cargo again. I think 16 that cruise and general cargo can happen on 10, and 17 we need the good quality jobs like the ones that ASI 18 provides where you have $60,000 a year where you're 19 starting at, versus the service sector which you may 20 have 20 or 24,000 a year. So, seven through 10 has 21 to remain a full terminal. We don't need to parcel 22 off pieces, we don't need to be building hotels. We 23 need to be looking at our long-term transportation 24 and logistic needs for the City of New York and how 25 we can maximize infrastructure like this so that we 130 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 can create more jobs and take more trucks off the 3 road. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. I 6 appreciate this panel. 7 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: And just as the 8 next panel comes up, which is going to be Tom Fox, 9 Mat Yates, Alexander Jordan and Roberta Weisbrod, I 10 just wanted to say, and I mentioned this in my 11 opening statement, that you know, reducing truck 12 trips is incredibly important, for Council Member 13 Gonzalez's district but for the City as a whole in 14 terms of improving our environment and providing 15 open space and access to the waterfront for this 16 community is equally important. 17 So, I think those are three goals 18 that are not mutually exclusive but three goals that 19 we have to be looking at together. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER GONZALEZ: And I just 21 wanted to add to that that trucks have been an 22 incredible problem in District 38. Just last week we 23 lost another child to a truck. There's been a lot of 24 tragedies. Just on my watch there's been five 25 children that have died. I think we definitely need 131 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 to look at that and be concerned about that, and we 3 will. Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Right. First 5 panelist, please identify yourself for the record. 6 MR. FOX: Tom Fox, New York Water 7 Taxi. 8 MS. WEISBROD: Roberta Weisbrod, 9 Partnership for Sustainable Ports. 10 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS PEREZ: Please speak 11 into the mic. 12 MS. WEISBROD: Oh, sorry. Roberta 13 Weisbrod, Partnership for Sustainable Ports. 14 MR. YATES: Matthew Yates, American 15 Stevedore. 16 MR. JORDAN: Alexander Jordan, NYPort 17 Terminal Development Company. 18 MR. FOX: Thank you very much for the 19 opportunity to speak. We are a small member of the 20 maritime community. A brand new company four years 21 old. We have about 60 full-time equivalent jobs. We 22 hire from Red Hook Houses, from Uprose, from Sunset 23 Park, from a harbor school, and this year we carried 24 about 900,000 people. We're Greg O'Connell's tenants 25 at Erie Basin and we have nowhere to go. We have 132 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 nowhere to grow. 3 If you look at the economics of the 4 ferry business in the New York harbor right now, 5 Seastreak, which is owned by a British Company, is 6 about to go out of business on December 31st. New 7 York Waterway and Billy Bay are skirting at 8 bankruptcy for the second time around. 9 We are the only New York-based 10 transportation company in the City, and we're having 11 a hard time staying where we are. 12 If I want to go get fuel, I have to 13 go to New Jersey. It cost me $200,000 a year to go 14 to New Jersey to get fuel. If I want to get 15 repaired, I have to go to Connecticut. We have no 16 support facilities for the maritime industry in the 17 New York Harbor. 18 We put in a request, and we support 19 American Stevedoring and the container operations 20 there, as we support Hughes Brothers and Richmond 21 (phonetic), and the working waterfront is an 22 important commodity that they're not making any more 23 of, and if we don't have a place to grow, what's 24 going to happen when Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Long 25 Island City are all rezoned with 27,000 units of 133 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 housing and no way to get around? 3 The water is the future, and if you 4 don't plan to retain these businesses right now 5 you're being penny-wise and pound foolish, and we 6 cannot impede against housing and hotels and other 7 Land Uses. You're mixing apples and bananas when 8 you're trying to compare the two of them together. 9 We need a working waterfront in Brooklyn. 10 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. 11 Can't compare, you mean as far as power and money 12 behind the scenes? 13 MR. FOX: Investment. The City 14 Economic Development Corporation should look at a 15 balanced approach, housing, parks, working 16 waterfront. That all has to go together. 17 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. I 18 appreciate it. 19 MS. WEISBROD: Thank you, Council 20 members, for holding this hearing at what I believe 21 is a very critical time. 22 I'm Roberta Weisbrod, I'm a 23 waterfront and transportation consultant. I live in 24 Brooklyn. I worked for the State Environmental 25 Agency, and I also worked for New York City EDC, and 134 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 in fact, I kicked off the 1999 study that's been 3 mentioned several times. 4 I think, unfortunately, the City's 5 actions are destroying the working waterfront, 6 particularly in the Red Hook area, which is the 7 heart of the working waterfront, for the very 8 reasons as Councilman Nadler (sic) said, in the 9 center off the channel and in the center of the 10 harbor. 11 I think that the City is doing these 12 actions really out of good motives. They want to see 13 economic development. I think they're based on not 14 good information. On the one hand the waterfront 15 looked like it was moldering and it looked like it 16 was moldering because of the derelict piers falling 17 apart, City and State did not avail themselves of 18 federal fundings to clean up that waterfront the way 19 New Jersey did, and you can see the difference. They 20 are also looking at the waterfront and waterborne 21 transportation in a somewhat outmoded way. Yes, we 22 did move to trucks, now we're moving in the other 23 direction. 24 So, those are two factors why they 25 are not moving forward. I want to speak about three 135 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 aspects of the waterfront because of the importance 3 of waterborne transportation. 4 Ferries are being recognized by 5 federal, state and local funding, there's about a 6 billion dollars going toward more ferry 7 transportation in the region, ferries coming to the 8 recent money. There is interest in the part of many 9 here in terms of waterborne freight, and I won't 10 repeat what other people said about the importance 11 of moving oil, construction materials and other 12 substances. 13 The three areas of concern are the 14 graving dock in Red Hook, the used bargeport and the 15 Red Hook Container Port. About the graving dock. 16 Yes, Ikea brought the property, we, the Save The 17 Graving Dock Committee, are not opposed to Ikea at 18 all in any way, shape or form. We think that it's a 19 grievous error to take an important piece of 20 infrastructure, fill it up for a parking lot, for 21 flat, broad expanse of a parking lot - big mistake. 22 And we've shown Ikea or made publicly available 23 plans to show them how they could reconfigure, we're 24 also suing them in Federal Court. 25 As far as Hughes and Erie Basin 136 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Bargeport, it houses hundreds of barges, all the 3 barges and the tugs that move the goods that are 4 going around the port, 20 percent of New York City's 5 freight, domestic freight, is coming by water. 6 It's a little known fact, but it's 7 there. If we lose it, as we will, as we destroy the 8 waterfront, more stuff will come by truck, yet more. 9 And that's what brought me into this whole issue of 10 quality of life issue. And I'm not going to say, I 11 mean, everyone else spoke very articulately. I agree 12 with them about the importance of having a 13 containerport in Brooklyn, if it's not in Red Hook, 14 then as soon as possible, Sunset Park. 15 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: They pave 16 paradise and put up a parking lot. Thank you. 17 Matt, if you would do us a favor and 18 not read the entirety, we'd appreciate it. 19 MR. YATES: Absolutely. 20 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. If you 21 could summarize, that would be great. 22 MR. YATES: I'm sure it's entered into 23 the record, so I could dispense with the prepared 24 testimony. Thinking of the speakers behind. 25 First I'd like to thank Chair Nelson 137 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 and Chair Lappin for your leadership on this issue. 3 It is of critical importance to the City. And I know 4 David Yassky has left, but he has been a tremendous 5 leader on this, through three troubled years now. 6 And also Council Member Gonzalez, who has been very 7 focused. 8 First, let me just maybe set the 9 stage on what's happening in Red Hook right now, and 10 perhaps given an insight into what's involved in 11 running a containerport, and the types of moving 12 parts that go with attracting things into Brooklyn 13 that we all need and perhaps how that relates to the 14 plan. 15 We've operated the containerport 16 since 1993. It's certainly true to say that in '93, 17 nobody contemplated the type of growth that is 18 taking place right now, that's largely a function of 19 the trade issues, and without taking that through a 20 debate, one thing is true, as our service sector 21 grows, as our density of population grows, we need 22 to serve these markets. And even prior to that 23 exponential growth, the containerport was already 24 beginning to stage rejuvenation (sic), so at that 25 time large-scale investment was made, and I think 138 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 it's worth noting that it was part of a contemplated 3 long-term plan back in the nineties, so we're seeing 4 sort of a mid-stage now. I would ask the Council, I 5 respectfully ask the Council to bear that in mind, 6 and what we've seen since '93 are investments close 7 to $100 million part private, part public money. 8 We've seen technology investments, 9 and we've seen strategic arrangements between the 10 containerport and its operator which is us, I think 11 as Kelly testified earlier, the whole world network 12 of how cargo moves. 13 And, so, I think we were working 14 towards, until there was perhaps the recent planning 15 challenge, is how to fully integrate Brooklyn as 16 part of an East of Hudson distribution center, which 17 not only -- and the jobs are very important and I'm 18 not trying to diminish that, perhaps one could 19 acknowledge, you know, jobs, does that lead to a 20 dispassionate consideration of a large planning 21 challenge. 22 So, just focusing my testimony now on 23 that distribution and why the containerport and 24 where it is, I would say that every customer that 25 uses the containerport, if it was not there, you 139 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 would see an economic penalty on trade, in some 3 simple cases perhaps $600 per container, but in some 4 specialist markets, food importers, $3,500 per 5 container. And those type of effects on our local 6 economy, certainly from the perspective of our 7 customers, I think are very tough. 8 But, also, what do we do with those 9 investments? How do we ensure that they are 10 protected. And thirdly, and this is where I'd like 11 to put the focus of my testimony, the challenge that 12 we have had is retaining in Brooklyn the steamship 13 lines. The presentation we saw from EDC earlier, 14 while, I mean there is much to be lauded in it, in 15 terms of perhaps objectives, but the reality is, 16 these plans are -- steamship lines will consider how 17 they are going to plan tonnage ships that move 18 around the world, how they are going to make loading 19 arrangements, where trans shipments are going to 20 take place, five, six, seven years in advance. 21 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. YATES: Right now there is no -- I 23 believe that the maritime industry has no strong 24 sense that there is this necessary commitment to 25 maritime, and it's essential that that be signaled 140 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 to them. Not the way of presentations, but by way of 3 continuity with the containerport, it's what happens 4 to all of the other facilities and you cannot have 5 this kind of serious facility that serves this 6 serious role to the City exists continually in the 7 middle of a short-term debate. 8 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: May need the 9 Robert Moses of the waterways. Little planning ahead 10 and really understanding the situation fully? 11 MR. YATES: We may need some of the 12 vision and thoughtfulness of Moses, but hopefully 13 with some more consensus. 14 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. 15 Now, were you going to do a 16 presentation, or after the last speaker? 17 MR. YATES: I really will do whatever 18 pleases the Committee, I don't want to kill the 19 clock. 20 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: We should keep 21 going. We have a lot of people to speak. 22 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: We still have 23 quite a number of people who are signed up to 24 testify, and we're going to lose our colleagues. So, 25 I would like to keep going, and if we have time, to 141 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 come back to that. If that's okay with you? 3 Otherwise, we won't be able to hear from everybody. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: If we have time 5 we'll come back to it, okay? Thank you. 6 Yes, sir. 7 MR. JORDAN: Members of the Committee, 8 I'm Alexander Jordan with NYPort Terminal 9 Development Company. We were chartered by Inature 10 European Marine Container Terminal Operator 11 (phonetic) to construct and operate an automated 12 container terminal in South Brooklyn, the Sunset 13 Park area. 14 This area was identified by our 15 partner Gotwald Port Technology (phonetic) which is 16 recognized by the marine shipping industry as the 17 preeminent terminal design company in the world, 18 indeed they're used to design terminals and locate 19 them all over. 20 Gotwald came and toured our harbor 21 here in New York and seized upon the site in Sunset 22 Park the Bayridge Railroad Yard area in South 23 Brooklyn as an ideal location for a marine container 24 terminal, and I would like to echo what Mr. Yates 25 just said, the marine container, the ocean shipping 142 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 companies feel that they are neglected and that New 3 York doesn't care about them. And this is an 4 extremely competitive industry. There are other 5 ports that are snapping at our heels, there are 6 other ports that can take market share away from New 7 York, and the economics follows a path of least 8 resistance in this industry. It's a high-volume 9 business, and we look for terminal facilities that 10 can operate extremely efficiently. 11 South Brooklyn is an ideal location 12 for specific companies whose market share is served 13 by that location. That is east of the harbor. There 14 are several shipping companies that look to the 15 Connecticut, New England and even Canadian provinces 16 of Quebec and Ontario that a site in Brooklyn serves 17 them ideally, primarily New York City is just an 18 import location but 80 percent of the traffic 19 remains in this area. 20 The plan we looked at relies very 21 heavily on barge and railroad use out of the area, 22 which is essential, and we're modeled after two 23 terminals in Europe, both in Homburg and Antwerpen 24 that are dependent on these two types of 25 transportation. But I just wanted to emphasize the 143 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 competitive issue and the importance of the South 3 Brooklyn site for a major terminal. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. 6 You said that 80 percent remain in this area. Could 7 you be specific, what area where? 8 MR. JORDAN: The New York metropolitan 9 area. 10 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Metro area 11 itself, okay. 12 Thank you very much. Thank you very 13 much to this panel, I really appreciate it. 14 Matt. 15 MR. YATES: I'll actually dispense 16 with the powerpoint, but unfortunately there were 17 two points that I forgot; could I just quickly 18 include them? 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Okay. Can you 20 really be brief? Thank you. 21 MR. YATES: The first point is on Pier 22 10, it is essential and I've been asked to express 23 this on behalf of the containership carriers, that 24 Pier 10 is an essential component of the port. Any 25 other location is not viable for containership. 144 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Vital. 3 MR. YATES: Exactly. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you very 5 much. 6 MR. YATES: Thank you, Chair Nelson. 7 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: The next panel, 8 please. Joseph Hughes, Michael Freedman-Schnapp, 9 Robert Pirani and Carolina Salguero. Thank you. 10 We thank everybody for their 11 patience, and please, if the panels can keep it 12 within the two minutes, as much as possible, I think 13 we'd all appreciate that. 14 Whoever wants to begin first, please 15 identify yourself for the record. 16 MR. FREEDMAN-SCHNAPP: Good afternoon. 17 My name is Michael Freedman-Schnapp, and I am Senior 18 Policy Associate for the New York Industrial 19 Retention Network. 20 NYIRN is a Citywide Economic 21 Development Organization that promotes a diverse 22 economy by strengthening New York City's 23 manufacturing sector based on principles of economic 24 and environmental justice. 25 City development projects are 145 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 beginning to bump up and it is absolutely essential 3 for blue collar jobs and for core infrastructure 4 functions necessary for our City's basic survival. 5 The South Brooklyn waterfront, from 6 Red Hook to the end of Sunset Park is one of the 7 most critical areas for blue collar jobs in the 8 industrial infrastructure. This area will only 9 become more important over the next few decades. 10 In the City's plan for Piers 7 11 through 12, there is significant opportunities, such 12 as the maritime support facilities in Atlantic 13 Basin, the extension to Conover Street, the 14 inclusion of the Greenway, and the creation of new 15 light industrial and artisanal space. 16 We welcome these aspects of the plan 17 as they fulfill community planning goals and support 18 the improvement of the local environment. 19 However, there are risks in EDC's 20 plans. Housing is proposed just upland of the one 21 place where maritime industrial operations are 22 proposed to be retained. Running a port is a 24-hour 23 affair, involving bright lights, trucks, fork lifts 24 and a lot of noise. 25 To select the area immediately upland 146 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 of active maritime operations is to invite 3 unnecessary conflict between residents in the port. 4 Port jobs have a significant impact 5 on the economy. The Port Authority found that for 6 every ten container port jobs created, there are an 7 additional created in other sectors. These are 8 highly paid jobs that have a large economic impact 9 on the City. 10 We believe much more attention needs 11 to be paid towards the economic impact of cruise 12 jobs, versus what currently exists there now. 13 We are particularly concerned about 14 future conflicts between residents and maritime uses 15 in Erie Basin. Erie Basin accommodates the tugs, 16 barges and waterborne construction equipment to 17 maintain New York's 500 plus miles of waterfront, 18 including airports, heliports, highways, bridges, 19 tunnels and the bulkheads for parks and new 20 residential development. This is a loud, smelly, 21 dirty 24-hour job, and residential development only 22 a few hundred feet away at Revere Sugar will 23 inevitably lead to complaints, to restrictions, to 24 fines and eventually to closure. 25 In closing, I would like to briefly 147 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 mention a few important projects that the EDC and 3 IDA are involved in that we support. 4 The Hugo Neu recycling facility in 5 Sunset Park will help fuel new green collar jobs by 6 providing a new source of high unrecycled materials. 7 The Lafarge cement facility on 25th Street and the 8 new Tristate Biodiesel plant starting on Columbia 9 Street are both innovative industrial uses that 10 further the goal's sustainability. 11 And finally, the Brooklyn Greenway 12 will be an important link for manufacturing workers 13 to get to work, as Sunset Park has one of the 14 highest rates of walking or biking to work. 15 Thank you very much. 16 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. I 17 truly apologize for curtailing the amount of time, 18 considering you took the time and effort to be here. 19 Just logistically it becomes a problem, but thank 20 you very much. 21 Yes, Ma'am. 22 MS. SALGUERO: Hi. I'm Carolina 23 Salguero, and I'm the Founder and Director of a 24 waterfront-oriented non-profit PortSide New York. 25 It's located in Red Hook, Brooklyn, but it speaks to 148 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 issues and stakeholders harbor-wide. 3 Given what's transpired here today, 4 which I confess was an invigorating surprise, I'm 5 going to largely dump referring to what I wrote 6 because it's been covered by a lot of people. 7 I do want to say I was really excited 8 to hear my favorite, what I consider to be a 9 misunderstood topic, the working waterfront 10 addressed in such a vigorous and articulate fashion, 11 and I would endorse a lot of the things that were 12 said by my colleagues Jerry Nadler, Sandy Pope, Matt 13 Yates, Alex Jordan, and I forgot someone in there. 14 Anyway, I think you get the drift. 15 So, what I wanted to then do is maybe 16 talk about some other things which I don't think 17 have been elaborated very much, to give some idea 18 about what we're about at PortSide, we are, I would 19 say, the first proposal I would say in that area of 20 South Brooklyn that is designed to mix what I call 21 the new or revitalized waterfront and the working 22 waterfront. Our idea is to do it without displacing 23 the working waterfront. We believe they're essential 24 to the City's infrastructure, but that they can also 25 be worked with in a different sort of way. 149 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 So, we have done a lot of studies. I 3 don't want to go into too much of what we've done, 4 our whole program, but essentially we, in 2006, with 5 the acquisition of our new home, 172-foot tanker, 6 the Mary Whalen, have now become part of the working 7 waterfront and not just an organization that studies 8 and interprets it. 9 And I can tell you, I know from a 10 study, but I'm now experiencing it, the pinch of 11 being in the working waterfront, I've been waiting 12 nine months for a shipyard, due to the shortage of 13 ship yards, since many of them have been forced out 14 of business, due to eminent domain or 15 gentrification. 16 What I want to suggest is some things 17 that people could consider that we haven't heard. I 18 feel like also full disclosure, PortSide New York 19 responded to the Atlantic Basin RFEI. We did not say 20 anything -- we only put in a proposal there once the 21 City had an RFEI because we believe it's an 22 important cargo thing. 23 Do I get a moment more? 24 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Yes. 25 MS. SALGUERO: I was pleased to hear 150 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 some of the ideas I brought up, mentioned here 3 earlier. We're responsible for the dock and shop 4 notion for tug boats at Fairway. We completed market 5 research last spring and provided to the EDC. We 6 compiled a first study inventory of tugs and barges 7 in this port since the 1991, EDC study, and can 8 report that it's a growing industry, expanding 9 fleets, refurbishing fleets, it's desperately-needed 10 space, it needs support services, meaning repair, 11 and a bunch of other sorts of things. 12 Another one of the ideas I've been 13 advocating for awhile I'd like to have people 14 consider, Bloomberg spoke about sustainability in 15 his speech this week, but did not make any reference 16 to moving goods or people by water. And I think 17 there is some unexplored opportunity. 18 One of them would be green parks with 19 green markets. Now we have all of our perishable 20 food up in Hunts Point. I would propose that there 21 would be small intermodal terminals in the parks 22 that would then have a green market attached to it, 23 to sort of gussie it up and provide a shopping 24 amenity for the community, but also provide 25 financing. 151 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Moving express freight by water. Some 3 of my colleagues here, Roberta Weisbrod, was part of 4 it, studied getting Federal Express stuff into their 5 depot. I think they did just a study for Manhattan, 6 but all of their local depots are actually within 7 100 yards of the water. Manhattan, Brooklyn and 8 Sunset Park and Staten Island on Richmond Terrace. 9 And another one of my ideas is what 10 I've been calling the Brooklyn Big Box Boat. All of 11 these former ship yards have become big box stores. 12 So, from Red Hook to Jamaica Bay, we have coming 13 soon the world's largest Ikea coming to Red Hook, 14 Home Depot, Jethro, Costco in Sunset Park, Toys R Us 15 in Gravesend Bay, Home Depot in the Coney Island 16 Creek, and the Gateway Mall off of Jamaica Bay. 17 All those things are serviced by the 18 very congested BQE. And if those freight boats 19 became passenger boats, they would probably be more 20 viable. The passenger ferries are having a hard time 21 and freight service usually supports it and we don't 22 have a single freight ferry in this port. 23 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you very 24 much. 25 MR. HUGHES: Hi. My name is Joe 152 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Hughes, and I'm here today representing Erie Basin 3 Bargeport. Erie Basin is the metropolitan region's 4 largest berthing facility for tugs and barges, and 5 one of the last sections of working waterfront in 6 New York City. 7 It's the HomePort to over 200 tugs, 8 barges, ferry boats and other working vessels. It's 9 zoned M3-1 for heavy manufacturing, and is located 10 within the recently established South Brooklyn 11 Industrial Business Zone to nurture and protect 12 industrial businesses. 13 The Bargeport is an essential 14 component of the City's working waterfront, due to 15 its configuration and natural deep water, this 16 resource is unique and irreplaceable. 17 Erie Basin is vital to the maritime 18 industry in New York Harbor. There are at least 750 19 tugs and barges in New York Harbor that must have 20 space that's high up between jobs for construction, 21 transport, as well as repairs, crew change and 22 storage. 23 Approximately 25 percent of these 24 vessels home port at Erie Basin. In addition to 25 providing berthing, Erie Basin has six upland 153 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 tenants and through a deal with the City, maintains 3 over a mile of public waterfront promenade. 4 The barge port is owned and operated 5 by Erie Basin Marine Associates, which is in turn 6 owned by two barge companies, Hughes Marine Firms 7 and Reinauer Transportation, both of which have been 8 family businesses for over four generations. 9 We and our tenants employ 619 workers 10 at Erie Basin, including 334 crew members, and have 11 been a presence in the Red Hook Community for over 12 30 years. 13 Reinauer's barge movements of fuel 14 eliminate 567,000 fuel trucks on area roads each 15 year. Another tenant, Buchanan Marine moves 6 16 million tons of aggregate annually, used to make 17 concrete and asphalt. 18 For example, one of Buchanan's 19 Marine's stone scows has the capacity of 25 rail 20 cars or 90 heavy trucks. In total, Buchanan's barges 21 keep 300,000 trucks off our local roads annually. 22 Additionally, Hughes Marine firms provides barges 23 for construction of bridges and other waterfront 24 infrastructure throughout the harbor. 25 I'll just finish up by saying there 154 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 is nowhere else for the marine businesses to go. The 3 bargeport is one of only a handful of areas in the 4 City, and was actually identified by the City's own 5 maritime support services study in 1991 as an area 6 that must be preserved for maritime use. There are 7 no other location in New York City that has the 8 depth, shelter and docks to accommodate the more 9 than 200 vessels home ported at the basin. 10 Do I have more time, or should I wrap 11 it up? 12 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you. Yes, 13 if you have like another couple of sentences. 14 MR. HUGHES: Well, as you can see, in 15 summary, Erie Basin is a critical part of South 16 Brooklyn's and New York's working waterfront and 17 preserving this facility and other working 18 waterfront facilities throughout Brooklyn means 19 preserving vital industries throughout New York and 20 the Northeast. Thanks. 21 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. Hughes. 23 Thank you to this panel. We 24 appreciate your time. 25 MS. SALGUERO: Thank you. 155 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: And I've been to 3 Erie Basin and walked around and seen -- 4 MR. HUGHES: You got the tour, huh? 5 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Yes. It's 6 impressive, the activity that's taking place there. 7 MR. HUGHES: Good. 8 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: And the 9 significant number of trucks that are being taken 10 off of the roads. 11 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: We don't spend 12 all our time in these halls here. 13 Robert Pirani, if you're here, we're 14 calling a second time. No. 15 Norman Brown. He is, okay. Lou Sones. 16 Charles Burns. And Stephen Hindy. Is Steve still 17 here? Okay, good. That would wrap that panel. Thank 18 you. 19 MR. BROWN: All right. My name is 20 Norman Brown. I'm a representative for Machinist 21 Union. I'm Legislative Director for State Council of 22 Machinists. I'm on the MTA Board, and I thank you 23 guys for sticking it out. I wish the other Council 24 people had taken it seriously enough to stick this 25 out. I can't tell you how seriously I take this 156 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 issue. 3 I also live in this neighborhood. My 4 family lives in this neighborhood. They never lived 5 anywhere else but Sicily, really, my mother-in-law, 6 they live right down the block from the container 7 port and President, between Columbia and VanBrunt 8 (phonetic). And beyond that, I don't represent 9 people at the container port itself. I represent the 10 mechanics at Ferrara Brothers on the Gowanus Canal, 11 and I represent the machinists at Golten Marine 12 (phonetic), which is a general marine repair 13 facility right next to American Stevedore facility 14 where we've represented workers there for maybe 80 15 or 90 years, and while none of our jobs are 16 immediately threatened in that sense that they'll be 17 gone tomorrow, diminishing the center of gravity of 18 the maritime industries there, will drive our people 19 out ultimately. 20 Now, there's a couple of points I 21 want to make. First of all, I don't think the EDC 22 has any idea how hard it is to create 600 union jobs 23 in New York City. They treat it like 600 like we got 24 another 600 right around the corner. It really ought 25 to be a landmarks issue. You ought to landmark these 157 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 union jobs, because these are under assault. I do 3 feel, and maybe I'm a little glib, and it comes off 4 kind of funny, but these are very serious things. I 5 mean, my people at Ferrara Brothers, they make 6 between like 19 and 28 dollars an hour. Almost none 7 of them are native speakers of English. Almost none 8 of them have finished high school even. They're very 9 good mechanics. They work very hard. Those that live 10 in the neighborhood have lived in the neighborhood, 11 you know, like we have, 30 years or so, but they 12 can't live in that neighborhood today. They can't 13 afford to live in the neighborhood. Well, they can't 14 hardly afford to live in New York City either, for 15 that matter, the way things are going. 16 Now, the rest of the neighborhood is 17 in a relentless drive to downzone. They want to 18 downzone the existing neighborhood, like they did in 19 Park Slope, like they did in many other 20 neighborhoods in Brooklyn, maybe yours -- what are 21 you, Midwood, Mike? 22 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Sheepshead Bay. 23 MR. BROWN: Yes, the people have a 24 relentless desire to downzone the residential 25 neighborhoods, and their excuse is we're going to 158 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 keep rents affordable by driving industry out and 3 putting residences there. 4 Now, this is economic suicide. This 5 is not accidental things that are happening. This is 6 strategic, people are doing this on purpose. And I 7 think part of it is, and I heard from the -- a very 8 good speaker this morning from EDC, however, you can 9 see, they don't understand what working people's 10 lives are like, how hard these jobs are to come by 11 and how few of them there are. 12 You drive them away, they'll never 13 come back. Now, the waterfront, any place in New 14 York City makes great real estate. You pick up any 15 empty lot in Bushwick, you can put up a nice 16 building there and squeeze as many people in as 17 you're willing to make that building big. Everywhere 18 on the waterfront is magnificent. 19 I'm wrapping it up, Mike. You know, I 20 gave up my afternoon to be here, and the other 21 people are too busy to stick it out. 22 Okay, well, the thing is that any 23 place makes good real estate. Any waterfront makes a 24 great view. But the thing is, you only have 60 feet 25 of deep water draft in very few places in the world. 159 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 It's a critical resource to New York City, very much 3 like oil would be to Houston, and you cannot waste 4 it. 5 Thank you for your time. 6 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Well, thank you 7 for staying and testifying. In all due respect to 8 our other colleagues, they do have other meetings to 9 go to and usually meetings last about an hour or two 10 hours at the Council. So, believe me, they're all 11 covered. 12 Yes, sir. 13 MR. SONES: Thanks, guys, for staying, 14 I appreciate it. My name is Lou Sones. I'm the 15 Coordinator of Red Hook GAGS, Groups Against Garbage 16 Sites. We're one of the leading environmental 17 watchdog organizations in Red Hook, and I'm also a 18 member of Community Board 6. And the reason why I'm 19 interested in a working waterfront is because it 20 takes trucks off the road. And as an 21 environmentalist, GAGS and Community Board 6, in 22 most of the meetings I've been at, I'm not speaking 23 for Community Board 6, but what I recollect 24 definitely supports a working waterfront. They're 25 good neighbors. It's very important. 160 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Now, I also want to congratulate you 3 guys for passing the retrofitting of the marine 4 transfer terminals, which will also take much more 5 trucks off the road. It's something I worked on for 6 about seven years now, and I'm glad it's been 7 adopted. Thank you very much. 8 At all the meetings that we've all 9 been at, even the sherets (phonetic) run by the EDC, 10 the Community Board panels at every other meeting, 11 everybody that's in this room agreed on several 12 principals about a working waterfront, and one was 13 no big box stores. Ikea came. The people spoke and 14 it went through ULURP and it came. 15 Okay? It's here. I accept it. 16 However, everything in this room has been speaking 17 about the uptick and the use and the future of a 18 working waterfront and yet there's only three dry 19 docks in all of New York, in New York Harbor, and 20 there's only one graving dock, and that's on the 21 Ikea property. 22 And all I'm pushing for is that that 23 graving dock be preserved, because all it's going to 24 do is give them 14 more units of parking. That 25 graving dock hired 100 people and grossed $8 million 161 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 a year up until two years ago. The last project was 3 the USS Mississippi, which is a Naval training 4 thing, and, yet, Ikea wants to fill that in with 5 rubble. It's a valuable asset to everybody that's 6 speaking about a working waterfront. 7 I also just want to disagree with a 8 couple of facts that have been said. 9 One is that residential and working 10 waterfront can't live side-by-side. That's not true. 11 It's happening on the Columbia waterfront. The 12 people there love ASI. They want them to stay there. 13 It's a tug sound and a tug horn is much more 14 pleasant than hearing truck beeping. So they do go 15 side-by-side. 16 Second of all, Ikea will not bring in 17 anything by ship. We've stated that. It's all coming 18 from truck. Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you, sir. 20 Yes, sir. 21 MR. HINDY: Yes, thank you, Chair 22 Lappin and Chair Nelson. 23 I'm Steve Hindy. I'm Founder and 24 President of Brooklyn Brewery. We're a home-grown 25 New York City business, located in Williamsburg. I 162 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 live in the Gowanus area right adjacent to Red Hook. 3 We started the business in 1988, my neighbor and I, 4 and I'm proud to say, we're now among the top 30 5 breweries in the country and the number 5 draft beer 6 in New York City. 7 We're in favor of preserving the 8 piers for maritime use, and we think Brooklyn 9 Brewery has a place on the pier. 10 The brewery and our distributor, 11 Phoenix Beverages, have been discussing with EDC the 12 possibility of locating at Pier 7. We would like to 13 build a new, bigger brewery, in the area of Pier 7 14 with a full-time tourist center and a beer garden. 15 We believe this facility will be a 16 world class tourist attraction that would be unique 17 to Brooklyn. It would also be an anchor attraction 18 for Brooklyn Bridge Park and an apt transition 19 between parkland and strictly maritime uses of the 20 waterfront. 21 Brooklyn was once one of the world's 22 great brewery centers and beer gardens were a 23 central feature of the Brooklyn community. 24 The brewery employed 100 people when 25 we distributed our own beer from 1988 to 2003. That 163 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 year we sold our distribution business to Phoenix. 3 We now have 35 employees in Williamsburg. We would 4 like to expand our business in the current location, 5 but we cannot because the land and real estate 6 prices are beyond our means. 7 We believe a larger brewer, a tourist 8 center and a beer garden would necessitate the 9 hiring of 70 new employees. A water taxi connection 10 could bring visitors from Manhattan in five minutes. 11 If Phoenix is our neighbor, we would not need 12 warehouse facilities, so more space could be 13 dedicated to brewing operations. 14 Brooklyn Brewery is among the most 15 successful small breweries in the United States in 16 exporting its beers. 17 We currently sell in Hong Kong, 18 Japan, Britain, Denmark, Sweden and Finland. In the 19 coming year we will send beer to Norway and 20 Switzerland. The possibility of shifting beer 21 directly from the Brooklyn waterfront would 22 significantly improve the economics of export for 23 us. 24 Some day we hope to send as much beer 25 to Europe as Europe currently sends to New York 164 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 City. 3 Thanks. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: That's great. We 5 thank you for bringing that to Brooklyn, by the way, 6 and the City indeed as a whole. Thanks a lot, Steve. 7 MR. BURNS: Charlie Burns. I'm with 8 the Tug and Barge Committee which is a trade 9 association, which basically represents about 18 tug 10 and barge outfits in New York Harbor and a part of 11 the EPONY Maritime Association. 12 A quick background, 36 years, 13 continuous maritime experience in and on New York 14 Harbor. What I want to say is very short. What I'm 15 going to say is very short, mainly because it's 16 obvious and very well covered by most people here 17 today. 18 New York is where it is for a reason. 19 We all know that. It's the intersection of two 20 powerful rivers. What's at that intersection? Red 21 Hook. Perfect. 22 Now, I'm only going to focus on tug 23 and barge. Tug and barge activity is the fabric of 24 our existence in New York. I mean, that's a very 25 common sense thing. Every one of our parents took us 165 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 down to see the tugs. Deep down inside, we all want 3 a ride on one, and you can't sit in Fairway Cafe 4 there for three minutes without somebody standing 5 their toddler up on the table showing them the tug 6 boats. 7 So, again, as long as we continue to 8 enjoy flipping that switch in the morning and 9 raising the heat and waiting for our potholes to get 10 fixed, et cetera, et cetera, tug boats are a part of 11 that. We take it for granted. We don't care if a 12 crew comes in after a 32-hour voyage coming down 13 from NorthPort frozen. We don't care about a couple 14 of toots in the middle of the night, and a quick 15 shout over a loud hailer, "hey, To, tie up the 16 barge." We want our house warm. So, again, to me, 17 it's a given, maybe it's because I'm in the business 18 so long, but what we take for granted, being part of 19 a City with what, a borough with 4 million people, 20 and a City of 10 million people without a port is 21 kind of difficult. I should say the borough, just 22 refer to the borough. 23 Now, so, again, that's a given. 24 Economies of scale, we've all been through that. If 25 you're worried about a barge, barges of asphalt, 166 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 turn that into trucks of asphalt and it's a given. 3 Now, my whole point here is, okay, 4 this is a given, what we have to look is ahead. 5 These containers have to come off the road. Right 6 now if you ride the turnpike at night you see the 7 guys still hooked up, doing 85, 90 miles an hour. 8 I'll finish. However, it's going to come to a point 9 where we're going to have traffic jams at night, and 10 what's going to get us out of this mess? The East 11 and North Rivers, okay? So, we have to look up the 12 line. And security, of course, God forbid another 13 9/11. 14 And one last comment, which is 15 getting off the tug boats, I just want to offer 16 friendly advice from being in the maritime industry: 17 before anyone spends a cent on 39th Street South 18 Brooklyn Marine, hire a Marine consultant and find 19 out how many owners in the world want to put their 20 multi-purpose, car, ships, et cetera, into finger 21 piers. Really, spend that money first before you put 22 one jacket on a piling, okay? 23 Thank you very much. 24 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Well, thank you 25 very much, the entire panel, for putting more puzzle 167 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 parts together for the equation. We appreciate it. 3 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: And I just wanted 4 to say to Mr. Hindy, that separate and apart from 5 the topic of the hearing today, it's always 6 impressive to see somebody who has built a small 7 business in New York City and been so successful and 8 had it grow. And it's really impressive. So, thank 9 you for coming. 10 MR. BURNS: Thank you very much. 11 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: And it's very 12 good beer. 13 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: For the next 14 panel, could we please call up Lisa Kersavage, Bette 15 Stoltz, and Bill Turis. I think Bill was here. Dave 16 Lutz. I thought Dave spoke already. Didn't Dave 17 speak? Dave spoke, right? Yes. 18 Liz Magnes. If Liz is still here? The 19 later the hour the crowds thin a bit. Teresa Toro. 20 She left, okay. And Joseph Ferrara. He spoke. I 21 thought so. So we have Lisa and Bette and that's it. 22 Again, Bill Turis and Liz Magnes, no. Okay, look at 23 this. 24 MS. KERSAVAGE: Good afternoon. My 25 name is Lisa Kersavage, I'm the Kress/RFR Fellow. 168 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Excuse me. This 3 is going to be the last panel. Everybody else spoke 4 and what have you. Are you satisfied? A gentleman 5 back there did not speak? Did you fill out one of 6 these slips, sir? What's your name? 7 MR. GOODWIN: Seth Goodwin. If you 8 fill one out, then you can join this last panel. 9 Thank you. 10 And while that's being worked out, 11 you may start. 12 MS. KERSAVAGE: Okay, my name is Lisa 13 Kersavage. I am Kress/RFR fellow for Historic 14 Preservation at the Municipal Arts Society. 15 I'm here today to talk about MAS's 16 efforts to save a critically needed billion dollar 17 piece of maritime infrastructure that could be lost 18 to make way for a parking lot, the graving dock on 19 the site of the Red Hook Ikea. 20 In 2004, the City approved a 21 redevelopment and rezoning plan that would allow for 22 the construction of an Ikea store on the Erie Basin. 23 The plan allowed Ikea to fill and pave over the 24 graving dock for a parking lot. 25 Despite the incredible importance of 169 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the dock and the fact that it is located in the Red 3 Hook Industrial Business Zone, and is further 4 designated by the City Planning Department is one of 5 six maritime and industrial areas, the importance of 6 the graving dock was not made adequately clear in 7 the public review process and the City approved its 8 destruction. 9 As a preservationist, I became 10 involved in the issue because the graving dock is 11 historic. Built in 1866 and lengthened in the 1880s, 12 710 feet long, it was at the time one of the largest 13 graving docks in the country and possibly the world. 14 But its importance is more than 15 historic. One of the few large docks in New York 16 Harbor it is critical to the growth of the maritime 17 industry. 18 I have distributed a fact sheet that 19 you should have. I'm just going to go through three 20 small points. 21 The working waterfront helps New York 22 going -- excuse me -- helps keep New York going, but 23 it can't grow without places for ship repair. 24 Ship repair facilities are in short 25 supply. Hurricane Katrina caused closure of a large 170 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 percentage of the ship repair in the south and work 3 has been diverted to other places. In New York and 4 across the country there is a huge need for repair 5 facilities the size of the Red Hook graving dock 6 that will support craft, tugs and barges. Before the 7 leasees were evicted from running the graving dock 8 in Red Hook, they were completely booked, in part to 9 repair the City's own fleet. 10 In filling the graving dock for a 11 parking lot, we're not just losing historical 12 resources or just another repair facility. Once it 13 goes away, it can never be replaced. 14 A new graving dock could cause close 15 to $1 billion and the likelihood of building a new 16 graving dock is quite small, even disregarding the 17 prohibitive cost. 18 I just have a little bit more. 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: That's all right. 20 You ladies and gentlemen stayed so long, take a 21 little more time. 22 MS. KERSAVAGE: Okay. 23 Although Ikea has started to clear 24 the site, we are still working to save the dock. MAS 25 developed feasible plans that incorporate Ikea's 171 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 programmatic needs, while preserving a working 3 graving dock. At 22 acres, which is the same size of 4 Atlantic Yards proposal. The site is sufficiently 5 large to house boats, big box retail and big boats. 6 Comptroller Thompson supports our 7 efforts, as you can see in a letter that I've given 8 to you, and we ask that you support us as well. 9 Finally, in future discussions, it is 10 critical to remember that New York City has a 11 limited amount of waterfront. We should be careful 12 not to put something in the waterfront like big box 13 retail or luxury housing that could go anywhere else 14 in this City. For economic and environmental 15 reasons, it makes sense to preserve as much of the 16 working waterfront as possible, including ship 17 repair facilities, like the graving dock. 18 Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Thank you very 20 much. 21 MS. STOLTZ: Okay, thank you for 22 staying. I'm Bette Stoltz. I'm the Executive 23 Director of the South Brooklyn Local Development 24 Corporation, and I have a little bit of a sore 25 throat, so hope you can hear me. 172 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Sure. 3 MR. STOLTZ: My organization, I think 4 it is safe to say, was probably the first one to go 5 and stir up the pot in Red Hook, and find out just 6 who was in business there and get organized. 7 I think it's fair to say that. And 8 the people who manned the Red Hook Office that we 9 had on Van Brunt Street, included people like Cesar 10 Claro, who is now Staten Island's Economic 11 Development person, Carl Hum who is now the 12 industrial development person at SBS, and Phaedra 13 Thomas, who you just heard speak. So, I've had some 14 great people go through our hands, and I think we 15 really know Red Hook. 16 I think after three decades I 17 understand a lot about Brooklyn Community economic 18 development. About two years ago, I was asked by EDC 19 to give my frank reaction and opinion to that famous 20 half-million dollar Pier 6 through 12 study they 21 have commissioned, and at the end of which they 22 still didn't know what to do with Red Hook, and I 23 was honored to have been given a half hour to speak 24 from the heart. Kate Calignon and Josh Sirefman were 25 in the room with me. I believed that I had truly 173 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 been listened to, and I even thought they might 3 follow some of my suggestions - foolish me. 4 The one thing they did follow that I 5 had gone out a few weeks before at the suggestion of 6 American Stevedoring to visit a company that they 7 knew wanted to come to the Brooklyn Piers, and that 8 was Phoenix Beverage. And what I said to the folks 9 at EDC was that I was embarrassed for New York City 10 that I had so far been the most important person who 11 had been out there to see Phoenix, because it was a 12 wonderful company, and I think that's probably the 13 only suggestion I made that they really picked up on 14 because at least they have included Phoenix in the 15 fold here. 16 But everything else, well, let's just 17 say the well-financed, well oiled, more persistent, 18 more powerful, more lobby savvy advocates of if it's 19 good for us it's good for New York real estate 20 development world, really had far greater access and 21 far greater influence with all of the 22 decision-makers and policy-setters in our City. 23 So, here I am with just three minutes 24 to instill a half hour of advice, and here it goes: 25 Don't let this be the administration that gives away 174 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the last piece of port in New York City. A working 3 port is irreplaceable. It needs a variety of berths 4 for a variety of vessels. It needs the cranes, the 5 equipment, and the infrastructure, both mechanical 6 and human. It needs the capacity to invent, to try 7 out and to refine new species for maritime services, 8 just as our population and our needs are growing in 9 the region. 10 Our Mayor has just finished telling 11 us that in 2030 we will have a million more people 12 in New York, and we'll be in gridlock for 12 hours a 13 day. Don't let's add to the number of truckloads 14 needed to move things to wherever they need to go. 15 Don't make a decision that will preclude us using an 16 enormously more efficient system for moving goods 17 and materials regionally, up the Hudson, out Long 18 Island Sound, even within the harbor estuary. It's 19 in this direction, towards this goal, that the plans 20 for the Red Hook containerport should be made and 21 funding should be appropriated. 22 A 21st Century port intermodal 23 transportation distribution system is waiting to be 24 created and nurtured. Unless and until you have 25 another New York City site in operation, don't give 175 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 this one away. And I wish there were more time. 3 Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Yes, but you made 5 an awful lot of sense in summing that up, and it's 6 just so true, and I just hope they don't sell 7 paradise for a parking lot. 8 Thank you. 9 Yes, sir. 10 MR. GOODWIN: Good afternoon. My name 11 is Seth Goodwin. I'm a Red Hook resident and a 12 working merchant mariner, a Coast Guard licensed 13 Ship Captain. There is probably very little I can 14 say to add to the discussion that hasn't been said 15 so excellently by previous speakers already, but 16 since I waited, I'll put in my two cents. 17 So, I live down the street from ASI. 18 I make my living in and around the port facility in 19 a related industry. It strikes me, this plan that 20 EDC has put forward in all its various iterations, 21 which have very kind of shifted like sand on the 22 beach, but that it's rash, it's shortsighted, and I 23 think to be very blunt, it strikes me as 24 opportunistic, looking to cash in on a South 25 Brooklyn building boom and in fact squandering this 176 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 great resource. The great resource I think we've 3 heard and it has been hammered home and I'll hammer 4 it one more time, is Brooklyn's waterfront area, 5 it's deep water shoreline area. 6 To put retail, hotels, even beer 7 gardens out on these piers is just squandering of 8 this resource. Those are businesses, industries, 9 that can thrive anywhere else in the City. So, they 10 really don't need to be out on a pier. And certainly 11 the last thing Red Hook needs right now is more beer 12 gardens, retail stores and hotels. 13 We do need, and the only businesses 14 that can go there are shipping, and that's really 15 not only Brooklyn but all the City really does need. 16 It's shortsighted to let those piers go for 17 something like what EDC is putting forward, 18 shortchanging Red Hook's history, the history of the 19 industry that made Red Hook and New York City great, 20 also kind of shortchanging our future economically 21 in terms of health and in terms of security. 22 So, thank you very much. 23 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Well, thank you. 24 And your role in this again? I'm sorry, I missed the 25 beginning. 177 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 MR. GOODWIN: I live in Red Hook and I 3 work on the water. 4 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: You work on the 5 water, okay. Because there are some people who 6 absolutely had no horse in this race, if you will, 7 they really just came to offer testimony, how they 8 feel the City of New York should be going for the 9 most purest and best of reasons, as well. And I 10 thank all of you, either side that you're on. 11 I just want to make note, testimony 12 has been received from Teresa Torro, the New York 13 City Coordinator for Tristate Transportation 14 Campaign; Catherine Wylde, President and CEO for the 15 Partnership New York City; Marme McGregor, Pratt 16 Center for Community Development; Gary LaBarbera, 17 Teamsters Joint Council No. 16; John McGettrick, 18 Co-Chair of the Red Hook Civic Association; and 19 finally, Randolf Peers, the Chair of CB 7. For one 20 reason or another they could not stay but we have 21 their testimony for the record. 22 Would Chair Lappin have anything else 23 to say? Do you want me to bang the gavel? 24 CHAIRPERSON LAPPIN: Sure. 25 CHAIRPERSON NELSON: Okay, if there is 178 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 nobody left to speak, I want to thank all of you so 3 very much for putting your two cents into New York 4 City. Thank you. This hearing is adjourned. 5 (The following written testimony was 6 read into the record.) 7 8 Written Testimony Of: 9 Teresa Toro 10 NYC Coordinator 11 Tri-State Transportation Campaign 12 13 Good afternoon. I am Teresa Toro, NYC 14 Coordinator for the Tri-State Transportation 15 Campaign. The Campaign is an independent, non-profit 16 policy and advocacy group promoting sustainable 17 transportation policies in the New York metropolitan 18 region. 19 In the matter of the City's proposed 20 acquisition of Piers 7-12 in Red Hook on the 21 Brooklyn waterfront from the Port Authority, the 22 Campaign believes the acquisition is a threat to the 23 City's ability to maintain strong economic growth 24 and a mixed economic base. It is essential to 25 sustain a major, working port facility (which 179 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 includes container shipping) in Brooklyn, to augment 3 existing facilities in New Jersey and Howland Hook, 4 Staten Island. Any action by the City on these Red 5 Hook piers that would stop port operations there 6 before another port terminal operation is functional 7 in Brooklyn would create an untenable hiatus that 8 could destroy New York's ability to attract and 9 maintain key shipping business. 10 If we keep chipping away at our port 11 facilities, we will remain completely dependent on 12 truck traffic to move our freight. With truck 13 traffic volume projections as high as 50% between 14 now and 2015, the City simply can not afford to lose 15 any waterborne freight movement opportunities and 16 indeed should be working hard to expand port 17 facilities in Brooklyn and elsewhere in the City. 18 Our port facilities, which are 19 critical to a growing economy for a City on the 20 water, have suffered from decades of neglect, and 21 have recently been eyed by policy makers who have 22 identified waterfront property as a potential boon 23 for real estate and other non-port-related 24 activities. Like every other rail or port facility 25 in New York City, the Red Hook facility is coveted 180 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 as a potential site for luxury condos and/or parks. 3 Nonetheless, a major, 4 state-of-the-art, deep-water container port must be 5 established in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, and the Red 6 Hook Marine Terminal must be kept open and 7 functioning as a port. The current proposed 8 acquisition of Piers 7-12 will result in an 9 irreversible loss of Brooklyn port development. And 10 while the Port Authority has invested considerable 11 funds in New Jersey port facilities and in Howland 12 Hook, and the City in Howland Hook, neither has 13 invested any noteworthy funds in recent years in 14 Brooklyn port development. 15 We urge you to consider the 16 "Strategic Plan for the Redevelopment of the Port 17 of New York." Originally proposed in 1999 by the 18 Giuliani Administration, 1999, the City developed 19 the Strategic Plan for the Redevelopment of the Port 20 of New York to engage maritime industrial uses on 21 the Brooklyn waterfront. 22 New York should maximize every 23 opportunity for economic development, and it would 24 be best to develop both Sunset Park and Red Hook, as 25 envisioned by the 1999 City Plan. 181 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 We must recognize that a healthy City 3 economy is supported by efficient goods and freight 4 movement. 5 Currently, New York City receives 6 over 95% of its goods by truck, according to the NYC 7 Department of Transportation. What's more, the 8 Federal Highway Administration has projected a 9 minimum of 50% more trucks in New York all 10 consistent with global increases in freight movement 11 and record volumes in United States cargo ports, 12 which are working to keep up with demand. To stay 13 economically competitive and keep the City's streets 14 and highways moving, New York must concurrently seek 15 to reduce truck dependence and vigorously pursue 16 more port development. 17 Thank you for holding this hearing. 18 19 20 Written Testimony Of: 21 Joseph J. Sitt 22 Managing Member 23 Thor Equities, LLC 24 25 December 14, 2006 182 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 3 Honorable Jessica Lappin 4 Chair, Subcommittee on Landmarks, Public Siting & 5 Maritime Uses Committee 6 Honorable Michael Nelson 7 Chair, Subcommittee on the Waterfront 8 New York City Council 9 City Hall 10 New York, NY 10027 11 12 Dear Chair Lappin and Chair Nelson: 13 As you may know, Thor Equities, LLC 14 and its affiliates is the owner of a waterfront 15 property in Red Hook, known as the Revere Sugar 16 Site" or 280 Richards Street. 17 The site offers a great opportunity 18 and an enormous challenge similar to many other 19 waterfront sites in New York, across the country and 20 throughout the world. The opportunity is to 21 reactivate long dormant sites and create public 22 access to the water. The challenge is to do so in a 23 way that allows traditional maritime uses to coexist 24 with new development. 25 While we were not invited to testify 183 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 at today's hearing, I would appreciate the attached 3 testimony being entered into the record. 4 5 Sincerely, Joseph J. Sitt 6 Managing Member, Thor Equities, LLC 7 8 Good afternoon, Council Members, my 9 name is Joseph J. Sitt, Managing Member of Thor 10 Equities, LLC, the owner of the long-abandoned 11 former Revere Sugar Plant in Red Hook. 12 Today we are here to discuss the 13 opportunities and challenges posed by the evolution 14 of our waterfront. We've seen the demise of 15 innumerable facilities that were based on 19th and 16 20th Century maritime commerce. We've been 17 challenged to determine which elements of the old 18 can survive and adapt to the global manufacturing 19 economy, to new technologies and to new modes of 20 transportation of people and products. 21 As communities around our nation and 22 the world struggle to adapt their waterfronts to 23 today's reality, a new generation of vibrant 24 mixed-use waterfronts have emerged, blending 25 traditional waterfront uses with a wide variety of 184 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 commercial and residential uses. 3 Cities throughout Europe and the 4 United States have become models for the 5 redevelopment of industrial and urban waterfront 6 sites. Key to these successes is a new pattern of 7 development that denies the segregation of the city 8 from the port, and instead adopts an inclusive 9 philosophy where both contribute to common physical 10 and programmatic goals, rather than contested ones. 11 We recognize and respect the 12 challenge to provide these opportunities in a way 13 that allows market and policy-driven new uses and 14 viable ongoing uses to co-exist. We believe that new 15 mixed-use paradigm allows development to be done in 16 a way that respects current neighbors and uses. 17 We are currently refining our plans 18 for the site and expect to present them to the 19 community within the coming weeks, so we don't have 20 any specifics to share with you today. We are here 21 to testify here, however, that as a stakeholder, we 22 are committed to an inclusive vision for the South 23 Brooklyn waterfront, and to working with you and the 24 community to achieve a renewed and vibrant 25 waterfront. Thank you. 185 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 3 4 Written Testimony Of: 5 Marnie McGregor 6 Pratt Center for Community Development 7 8 Good afternoon Chairwoman Lappin, 9 Chairman Nelson, and Subcommittee Members. My name 10 is Marnie McGregor from the Pratt Center for 11 Community Development. Thank you for this 12 opportunity to testify, and for convening an 13 oversight hearing on this important issue. 14 As a non-profit organization that 15 works with communities throughout New York City to 16 plan diverse, equitable and sustainable 17 neighborhoods, we are here today to express concerns 18 about the future of the South Brooklyn Waterfront. 19 It is our understanding that the 20 Administration's proposal for Piers 7 through 12 21 maintains light industrial and maritime space, but 22 also introduces hotel, residential, retail, 23 entertainment and related uses. The introduction of 24 these uses, without sufficient regulatory 25 protections for the industrial businesses and 186 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 maritime facilities is likely to trigger the 3 conversion of the area from a working waterfront to 4 an upscale residential and recreational destination. 5 It also sets a bad precedent for New York's 6 waterfront which is a tremendous economic 7 development resource. This is of particular concern 8 when plans for a container port at the South 9 Brooklyn Marine Terminal have not been solidified. 10 The future of goods movement East of the Hudson 11 River is at risk if we do not plan today for 12 adequate freight infrastructure. 13 In light of the Mayor's long-term 14 planning initiative, which is a promising approach 15 to dealing with land use & infrastructure throughout 16 the City, piece-meal development of the Brooklyn 17 waterfront does not make sense. We would like to see 18 a comprehensive land use and infrastructure planning 19 framework for this area, as part of the 2030 PlaNYC 20 initiative before foreclosing the possibility of 21 future maritime and industrial use of the piers. 22 We are confident that the Economic 23 Development Corporation is proceeding in good faith 24 based on their land use and economic analysis for 25 the Brooklyn waterfront, however, we do not believe 187 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 that there has been enough transparency about the 3 rationale for the future development in this area. 4 Planning for an initiative that will create such 5 dramatic and irreversible change should maximize 6 opportunities for public participation, as well as 7 incorporate consideration of its long-term 8 implications. 9 We look forward to City Council 10 taking a leadership role in ensuring a healthy 11 economic future for the South Brooklyn Waterfront, 12 are committed to working with the Administration, 13 City Council, community groups, workers and 14 employers to make this a reality. 15 Thank you. 16 17 18 Written Testimony Of: 19 Kathryn Wylde 20 President and CEO 21 Partnership for New York City 22 23 Good afternoon and thank you for the 24 opportunity to testify on the planning and 25 redevelopment of the Brooklyn waterfront. 188 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 The Partnership for New York City is 3 an organization of the city's business leaders and 4 largest employers. We promote policies and projects 5 that we believe will encourage job creation and 6 economic growth across the five boroughs. 7 The Partnership works closely with 8 both the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey 9 and the New York City Economic Development 10 Corporation on a variety of issues and projects. We 11 support the decision of these agencies with regard 12 to the proposed acquisition of Piers 7-12 by the 13 City. We believe that this transaction will 14 contribute to the improvement of the working 15 waterfront on both the New York and New Jersey sides 16 of New York Harbor. 17 The City's plan for these piers 18 envisions a working waterfront where jobs are 19 created, new industries can thrive, and port 20 activities are preserved. The Economic Development 21 Corporation is the appropriate government agency to 22 carry out renewal, preservation and expansion of the 23 city's industrial waterfront as one element of 24 larger efforts to build and diversify the economy of 25 the five boroughs. 189 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 The Port Authority was created to 3 develop, maintain and manage the region's 4 transportation infrastructure. It was not designed 5 to serve as an economic development agency and much 6 of the neglect of Brooklyn's waterfront over the 7 past forty years reflects the fact that we have 8 looked to the Port Authority to undertake a role 9 that was neither its mandate nor core competence. 10 Piers 7-12 constitute a stretch of 11 Brooklyn's working waterfront where redevelopment 12 should be integrated with the renewal of adjacent 13 neighborhoods as well as the expansion of the City's 14 tourism industry, the increased role of ferries in 15 the public transit system and the development of 16 Governor's Island. To revitalize the piers and 17 surrounding area will require rezoning, 18 street-mapping, property acquisition and disposition 19 that are best planned and performed by the city, 20 pursuant to our charter-mandated land use process. 21 The City's plan for the piers 22 recognizes that the Red Hook waterfront is an 23 appropriate place for the coexistence of port 24 activities and a mixture of light industrial and 25 water-dependent uses. For example, on Piers 7, 8, 9A 190 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 and 9B the industrial port activities, which could 3 include stevedoring and warehouses, can continue to 4 operate while nearby properties are handed to other 5 light industrial users, such as maritime parts 6 manufacturing, maritime repair or a brewery. Pier 11 7 and the Atlantic Basin could have a marine, 8 waterfront marketplace, retail and light industrial 9 uses -- tightly proposed uses that can coexist with 10 port activities, as demonstrated by cities such as 11 Seattle, San Francisco and Vancouver. 12 The Brooklyn Cruise Terminal, 13 developed by the Economic Development Corporation, 14 is an example of smart reuse of Brooklyn's 15 industrial waterfront. It has created 290 permanent 16 jobs, relying on both dockworkers and service 17 employees from the local neighborhood. The Cruise 18 Terminal's expansion, as envisioned in the City's 19 plan, is a logical response to the fastest growing 20 segment of the tourism industry. Today's huge cruise 21 ships, with 3,500 passengers, demand the parallel 22 berths and large terminals available on Piers 10 and 23 12. 24 The City's aggressive commitment to 25 rebuild the Brooklyn waterfront - from the Brooklyn 191 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Army Terminal to Sunset Park, Red Hook, Brooklyn 3 Bride Park, through t he Navy Yard and all the way 4 to Williamsburg and Greenpoint - is exciting and 5 long awaited. It includes new residential and 6 commercial uses, as well as preservation of 7 necessary industrial and freight activities. For too 8 many years, the properties in question have been 9 under-utilized, some with subsidized operations. The 10 mix of proposed uses is the best way to create a 11 steady stream of new jobs across a range of 12 businesses. 13 With respect to container port 14 functions, the EDC reaffirmed its commitment to 15 reinvigorating container port functions in Sunset 16 Park. Given this commitment, we conclude that the 17 City's plan for Piers 7-12, which maintains the 18 current industrial space and also introduces more 19 diversified uses to what has been long derelict or 20 underutilized waterfront property, deserves our 21 support. 22 23 24 Written Testimony Of: 25 Randolf Peers 192 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Chairperson 3 Community Board No. 7, Brooklyn 4 5 6 On behalf of the members of Community 7 Board Seven in Brooklyn representing the 8 neighborhoods of Sunset Park, Windsor Terrace, South 9 Park Slope and Greenwood Heights, I want to thank 10 Chairperson Lappin, Councilwoman Sara Gonzales and 11 all of the committee members for allowing me the 12 opportunity to speak about Sunset Park's waterfront 13 and the many exciting projects within our community. 14 To start with, I am very pleased to 15 inform you that our community's 197A plan is almost 16 complete and is scheduled to be officially submitted 17 to the NYC Department of City Planning in January. 18 This plan, which was began under my predecessors, 19 Joseph Longobardi and Sara Gonzalez, very much 20 reflects our emphasis on maintaining a healthy 21 industrial and manufacturing jobs base in Sunset 22 Park. Point in fact - Sunset Park is one of the few 23 remaining neighborhoods in NYC where a large 24 percentage of people who live in the community also 25 work in the community. Sunset Park is also home to a 193 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 large immigrant workforce that relies on decent 3 paying industrial jobs the (sic) enable them to 4 support a family. Our 197A plan is very much an 5 effort to both retain and expand the numbers of jobs 6 along our industrial waterfront. 7 To that end, CB 7 has voted to 8 endorse two important projects that will bring 9 approximately 300 new jobs to our community - Axis 10 Auto Group's Processing Center and break bulk 11 facility, and the SIMMS/Hugo Neu Recycling Plant. 12 Both of these projects will be located at a 13 refurbished South Brooklyn Marine Terminal, and the 14 City Council has already approved the lease 15 agreement for Axis. We were disappointed to hear, 16 however, that in spite of this approval, EDC has yet 17 to sign off on the lease agreement. 18 Another exiting (sic) project the 19 Board supports is the leasing of dock space at the 20 58th Street pier for Unitel, a company that is 21 proposing to provide high speed ferry service 22 between Sunset Park and Atlantic City. Many older 23 residents in the community want to see this project 24 happen since it will provide them with an 25 alternative to the charter busses that make the run 194 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 daily to Atlantic City. In addition to the Unitel 3 project being an appropriate maritime use, the 4 company has pledged to hire locally and provide free 5 shuttle service for Sunset Park residents. 6 It is also important to note that the 7 companies representing all three of these new 8 projects - Axis, Hugo Neu and Unitel, have pledged 9 to provide operating support for our 23-acre 10 waterfront park that will be on the waterfront at 11 Bush Terminal. (Joseph Longobardi will speak more 12 about the Park plan in his testimony, but I do want 13 to underscore that we are all very excited about 14 recapturing open space along the waterfront through 15 the creation of this park! The waterfront park is 16 the most important waterfront priority for CB 7 at 17 this time.) 18 Lastly, I need to clarify the Board's 19 position on siting a large-scale container port in 20 Sunset Park. Consistent with our soon to be 21 submitted 197A plan and the port plan from ten years 22 ago, CB7 supports the construction of container port 23 only if the Cross Harbor Rail Freight Tunnel is 24 built as prerequisite. Furthermore, should the 25 tunnel be built, then the placement of the container 195 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 port should be south of SBMT, closer to the Brooklyn 3 Army Terminal and near the 65th Street Rail Yards. 4 Our reasoning for this is simple, we are very 5 concerned about the massive amount of truck traffic 6 that will be generated by the port and will use our 7 local streets, many of which have been designated as 8 truck routes, for transit and transportation 9 purposes. 10 In sum, Community Board Seven and the 11 many residents of Sunset Park are firmly united in 12 their belief that our waterfront should continue to 13 support jobs generating purposes as well as provide 14 a new source of recreational activity that will be 15 afforded through the new park. 16 17 18 Written Testimony Of: 19 Joint Council No. 16 20 International Brotherhood of Teamsters, AFL-CIO 21 22 Teamsters Joint Council 16: New York City Council 23 Testimony 24 Oversight Hearing on South Brooklyn Working 25 Waterfront 196 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Thursday, December 14, 2006 3 4 Good afternoon Chairs Jessica Lappin 5 and Michael Nelson and members of the Subcommittee 6 on Landmarks, Public Siting and Maritime Uses and 7 the Waterfronts Committee. I am here testifying on 8 behalf of Gary LaBarbera, President of the 9 International Brotherhood of Teamsters Joint Council 10 16, and it's 120,000 working men and women. 11 Teamster Joint Council 16 adamantly 12 believes that in order for our city to continue its 13 path towards growth, you need some portion of your 14 waterfront to be left for working and industrial 15 use. 16 On Tuesday, the Teamsters listened to 17 the Mayor outline the city's vision for handling a 18 massive population increase by 2030. In order to 19 mitigate the onslaught of traffic congestion that 20 will inevitably occur, the City needs to have some 21 goods and supplies manufactured close to the City's 22 core. 23 If we look at the waterfront in 24 Brooklyn, we are now fighting to keep quality union 25 based employers, Strober and Express Industries and 197 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Express Haulers, currently located on Piers 1 and 3 3 and struggling to relocate because of rezoning, to 4 stay in New York. These companies warehouse paper 5 and printing material and interior building 6 materials. Although we are working with the City to 7 help with the relocation there are far few 8 industrial spaces in the City to relocate to and, if 9 any, that will offer long-term leases. Along the 10 Gowanus Canal, we represent Ferrera Brothers, a 11 concrete producer that the city desperately needs to 12 stay in business because of its proximity to lower 13 Manhattan. Ferrera Brothers will need 300,000 14 deliveries of reday mix concrete in the next couple 15 of years yet it will be next to impossible to 16 relocate. The Teamsters Joint Council 16 strongly 17 believes that the city needs to carve out specific 18 industrial areas that will be protected by zoning 19 regulations, such as the Industrial Employment 20 District resolution, to ensure continuation of thee 21 strong thriving businesses. 22 As you've heard from the testimony of 23 others here today, we are losing hundreds of jobs by 24 the proposed closing of the container port terminal. 25 We strongly agree with Congressman Nadler on the 198 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 issue of continued use of a container port terminal 3 in Red Hook. It would be in the bets interest of the 4 city to keep Red Hook ports operational until a new 5 container terminal is developed at the South 6 Brooklyn Marine Terminal in Sunset Park. 7 We would like to commend the City 8 Council for approving in June the Axis Group project 9 at South Brooklyn Marine Terminal (SBMT) which the 10 Teamsters strongly support. The Axis Group - and its 11 parent company, Allied Automotive - have been union 12 employers and we are hopeful that the City will move 13 forward on this project as soon as possible. 14 Teamsters Joint Council 16 believes that the best 15 use of SBMT, in order to create jobs, is the current 16 proposed use of creating an auto processing center 17 managed by Axis. However we also need to serious 18 (sic) look at expansion of port facilities in Sunset 19 Park because the land is there for a larger port use 20 and it has the rail link allowing for simpler and 21 easier transport. 22 Thank you for the opportunity to 23 testify and for your consideration. 24 25 199 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Written Testimony Of: 3 John McGettrick 4 Co-Chair 5 Red Hook Civic Association 6 7 My name is John McGettrick. I am 8 co-chair of the Red Hook Civic Association. I have 9 lived in Red Hook for almost 20 years and decades 10 earlier my father, as an immigrant from Ireland, 11 worked for Todd Shipyards in Erie Basin. 12 I am here today to tell you that Red 13 Hook is a unique part of the Brooklyn waterfront and 14 should be treated as such. 15 It is a small peninsula with stunning 16 views of the Statue of Liberty and Manhattan skyline 17 surrounded by Gowanus Bay, Upper New York Harbor, 18 and Buttermilk Channel. It is less than one square 19 mile in area and has mostly narrow landfilled 20 streets. 21 It has a great recorded history going 22 back to the time of the Dutch in 1637, and it was 23 the site of a Revolutionary War Fort called Fort 24 Defiance that played a critical role in protecting 25 Washington's retreat during the Battle of Long 200 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Island. By the mid 1800's it was the largest 3 grainport in the country with Erie Basin actually 4 being the southern terminus of the Erie Canal 5 System. 6 However, in the latter half of the 7 20th Century it fell into deep decline. In 1961 the 8 City Planning Commission changed the vibrant mixed 9 use zoning that had worked well for over 100 years 10 to zoning which dramatically curtailed housing and 11 commercial uses. In the late 60's and early 70's 12 hundreds of residential units were condemned to 13 promote the development of the Red Hook Container 14 Port. Many were never taken to build the container 15 port but the cloud of condemnation remained for 16 decades. These actions, in large measure, 17 contributed to a population loss of 50% and the loss 18 of thousands of jobs as well. By the late 1980's the 19 neighborhood was overrun with 20 garbage transfer 20 stations and threatened with waterfront sludge 21 plants. 22 The community fought back and worked 23 to get a 197a Plan adopted by the City Council in 24 1996 which, among its objectives, called for 25 rebuilding the lost population. 201 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Red Hook needs continued maritime 3 activity along with residential and commercial 4 revitalization. We desperately need the 5 understanding of the Council in this respect. 6 We do not need the continued 7 exaggeration concerning the current levels of 8 maritime activity. While recognizing that most of 9 the jobs are currently part time, the Cruise Ship 10 Terminal actually provides more jobs for Red Hook 11 residents than the Red Hook Container Port. The 12 Container Port should remain but it can easily do 13 more with less area. 14 We do not need continued land banking 15 under the guise of protecting underutilized, 16 industrially zoned areas. A perfect case in point is 17 the Sugar refinery site now owned by Thor Equities 18 in Erie Basin. It has been vacant and deteriorating 19 for over 20 years. Some of most (sic) strident 20 voices, who would still keep it in its present 21 condition, were also the most vocal in their support 22 for the destruction of the large adjoining shipyard, 23 with its numerous historic structures and one of the 24 last working graving docks in New York Harbor, to 25 make way for the largest Ikea in the country. 202 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Please remember that when Red Hook 3 had twice as many people as it does today it had 4 thousands of more jobs as well and it also had what 5 we now need, more mixed use zoning. 6 Under the assumption that a picture 7 is still worth a thousand words, I have provided you 8 with a picture of Red Hook as it look (sic) 150 9 years ago when apparently the City of Brooklyn had 10 far less money but much more imagination. 11 Thank you. 12 John McGettrick, Co-chair. 13 14 15 Written Testimony Of: 16 Robert Pirani 17 Director of Environmental Programs 18 Regional Plan Association 19 20 Thank you for this opportunity to 21 share our thoughts on the south Brooklyn Working 22 Waterfront. 23 My name is Robert Pirani. I am the 24 Director of Environmental Programs for Regional Plan 25 Association, a not-for-profit planning, research and 203 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 advocacy organization. I am also the Executive 3 Director of the Governors Island Alliance, a 4 coalition of civic organizations working to ensure 5 appropriate reuse of the Island and its historic 6 structures. 7 The South Brooklyn waterfront in 8 general and Piers 7-12 in particular are vital 9 assets for Brooklyn, the City and the entire Harbor. 10 This waterfront, and indeed the entire Harbor, is 11 changing rapidly. We appreciate the Council's timely 12 attention to this issue. 13 In considering the planning and 14 redevelopment initiative being undertaken by the 15 Economic Development Corporation and other upcoming 16 decisions about the South Brooklyn waterfront, we 17 believe the Council should follow three important 18 principles: 19 Protect Maritime Use - Whether it is 20 containers or other cargo and services, this should 21 be a working waterfront; 22 Ensure Public Access - Dedicate land 23 for the greenway and other public spaces to provide 24 for waterfront parkland and buffer upland 25 residences; 204 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Provide Harbor Connections - Make 3 South Brooklyn a front door to Governors Island and 4 the rest of the Harbor District. 5 Protect Maritime Use. 6 State and City waterfront policies 7 place primacy on retaining and promoting maritime 8 use on the waterfront. But competition for real 9 estate in the City means that these uses will be 10 displaced unless protected. As these uses are 11 whittled away, the critical mass needed to sustain 12 the overall maritime economy is in danger. 13 Any actions by the City on Piers 7-12 14 should seek to ensure that these piers retain their 15 maritime focus. Brooklyn's waterfront should 16 continue to be a place for ships and related 17 commerce. We understand that EDC has recently taken 18 the positive step of not rezoning the west side of 19 Columbia Street for residential structures. We would 20 also note that hotels and other commercial 21 destinations may be more suitable for the landside 22 of Conover Streets and across Buttermilk Channel at 23 Governors Island. 24 The pivotal location of the piers and 25 the new passenger ship terminal suggests that Piers 205 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 7-12 could thoroughly transition to shipping mixed 3 goods and providing other harbor-oriented maritime 4 services. 5 If that change takes place, the City 6 should continue to assist the small batch cargo 7 markets currently served by Red Hook Container 8 Terminal by opening the lease of the South Brooklyn 9 Marine Terminal in Sunset Park to allow for such 10 use, either in whole or in part. The operation at 11 South Brooklyn Marine Terminal is not currently a 12 water dependent use. Our understanding is that it 13 will be several years before automobiles can be 14 delivered by barge and at least ten years before an 15 international car port can be in place. A small 16 batch container port, like the current operation at 17 Red Hook, may e a better and higher value use for 18 this location. 19 Ensure Public Access 20 Brooklyn's waterfront neighborhoods 21 and their residents have long been denied their 22 right to access the water of the Harbor. Industrial 23 uses sealed off the waterfront from upland 24 residents. The current revitalization offers a 25 specific opportunity to create such access, and 206 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 provide park space in neighborhoods that are starved 3 for this essential city service. Such public spaces 4 benefit maritime use, by buffering upland 5 residential neighbors from noise and other impacts 6 and by enabling the public to appreciate this 7 important industry. Cities all over the world have 8 blended maritime industry and parks; New York can 9 too. 10 RPA endorses EDC's proposed actions 11 to provide waterfront access. I want to call 12 specific attention to the City's proposal to provide 13 dedicated space to the Brooklyn Waterfront Greenway 14 through its street mapping actions. Establishing the 15 14 mile long greenway is an important goal of RPA. 16 This landscape path will serve to connect the 17 waterfront parks, maritime uses, and neighborhoods 18 all along the waterfront. We continue to work with 19 our partners at the Brooklyn Greenway Initiative, 20 Borough President Markowitz, Congresswoman Velazquez 21 and other elected officials to see this 22 region-shaping amenity come to fruition. 23 EDC's proposal to map the greenway is 24 an important and innovative action that recognizes 25 that greenways are becoming permanent fixtures in 207 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 the City's landscape - just like streets and parks. 3 We understand that EDC has revised its proposal to 4 allow the establishment of a full 30 foot wide 5 greenway/bikeway along the entire upland edge of the 6 project site, rather than the 25 feet previously 7 proposed. This is terrific news. While we applaud 8 EDC's proposal to provide park space at Pier 10 and 9 Atlantic Basin, we would similarly like to see that 10 these open spaces be placed under the jurisdiction 11 of the Parks Department or that other steps are 12 taken to ensure that they too become permanent 13 features of the waterfront. 14 Provide Harbor Connections 15 The Brooklyn waterfront should be the 16 Borough's front door: A gateway to and from the 17 reset of the Harbor and the destinations within the 18 emerging Harbor District. 19 This is particularly critical with 20 respect to Governors Island. Landside connections 21 for people and vehicles must be provided from 22 Brooklyn. Water taxis, vehicular ferries, and/or 23 barges will provide additional and needed capacity 24 as well as critical redundancy to the current access 25 from the Battery Maritime Building in lower 208 1 WATERFRONTS AND LANDMARKS 2 Manhattan. This is not a plea to make Brooklyn the 3 service entrance to the Island. Creating this 4 physical connection will help ensure that the 5 Island's future park spaces, schools and commercial 6 spaces are in fact tied to its closest neighbor by 7 allowing Brooklyn residents and businesses easy and 8 efficiently access to the Island. Given their 9 location, Pier 9B or 10 are logical sites for such 10 access. If these piers are not appropriate, then 11 another comparable area in Brooklyn must provide 12 these needed connections. 13 Thank you again for your interest and 14 opportunity to testify on this issue. 15 (Hearing concluded at 3:34 p.m.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 209 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 5 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 7 8 9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified 10 Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify that the 11 foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of the 12 within proceeding. 13 I further certify that I am not 14 related to any of the parties to this action by 15 blood or marriage, and that I am in no way 16 interested in the outcome of this matter. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 18 set my hand this 14th day of December 2006. 19 20 21 22 23 --------------------- 24 CINDY MILLELOT, CSR. 25 210 1 2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I, CINDY MILLELOT, a Certified Shorthand 10 Reporter and a Notary Public in and for the State of 11 New York, do hereby certify the aforesaid to be a 12 true and accurate copy of the transcription of the 13 audio tapes of this hearing. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ----------------------- CINDY MILLELOT, CSR. 25